The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop • Hacker News Board

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#171

Post by austenallred » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 5:32 PM UTC

catkin wrote: post #156

DavidAdams wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would partially explain why an Apple laptop in Europe routinely costs $500+ more than in the US.

Except that they don't. The base 13 inch MBP costs $1299 in the US and £999 in the UK, which converts to $1531.52 at the time I wrote this comment, for a difference of ~$230. The mid-level costs $1499 in the US and £1199 in the UK, which converts to $1838, a difference of $339.

And the cost of AppleCare is $200-$349. So in other words, you're basically required to have AppleCare.

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#172

Post by AnthonyMouse » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 5:38 PM UTC

efaref wrote: post #155

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want easily swappable batteries, get a different machine. Apple doesn't make a different machine. Obviously what you mean is to buy from a different vendor, which is what I expect to do when the time comes for a new laptop. But how is it good for Apple that they got my money last time and won't get it next time?

If you try to please everyone, you'll please no-one. Most people, certainly most Apple customers, don't care that the battery is not replaceable. In fact, it works in their favour as they can use the failing battery as justification for getting a shiny new MacBook Pro in a few years' time.

> If you try to please everyone, you'll please no-one.

How is that supposed to provide any support for Apple's one size fits all approach?

> Most people, certainly most Apple customers, don't care that the battery is not replaceable. In fact, it works in their favour as they can use the failing battery as justification for getting a shiny new MacBook Pro in a few years' time.

How is incurring an expense of several hundred dollars (or reducing the resale value by that amount) supposed to work in the customer's favor? It seems the customer could achieve the same "benefit" by smashing it with a hammer.

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#173

Post by Recurecur » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 5:39 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #163

freehunter wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judging by the increase in sales year over year for the Macbooks, it doesn't seem like it's bad for Apple. How many sales has Apple gained by making the laptop thinner and lighter and giving it a longer battery life compared to sales lost from not making a few parts user-replaceable?

> Judging by the increase in sales year over year for the Macbooks... ...you get a number that tracks the economy in general and the consumption of luxury electronics in particular, is affected by the relative strength of Apple's ecosystem against Microsoft and Google, how badly Superfish has affected Lenovo's reputation, etc. etc. And in any event the numbers aren't particularly optimistic: http://blogs.wsj.com/digi…

"And in any event the numbers aren't particularly optimistic"

The article is stating that the rate of growth (still positive) for Macs slowed somewhat.

The same article states:

"Apple nonetheless outperformed the overall PC market, which saw shipments plummet 11% to 71 million for the quarter, according to IDC. Moreover, given the worse performance of other PC makers, its market share rose to 7.6% in 2015 from 6.9% last year, according to Gartner."

That looks decidedly optimistic to me!

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#174

Post by blowski » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 5:44 PM UTC

josu wrote: post #170

blowski wrote: post #10

Just as a side-note (IANAL), in the EU, retailers can't refuse to fix something just because it's past their warranty period. If you can establish that the product has broke under reasonable use then you can argue that the product wasn't fit for purpose when you bought it, and therefore it is still the retailer's responsibility to repair it, replace it or give you a partial refund. I did this with Apple when my logic…

>I did this with Apple when my logic board failed just under two years after buying a Macbook Pro 2009 model. If it was under two years, then it was covered by the warranty. [1] [1] http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroa...

I was referring to Apple's "one year limited warranty" [1] which suggests you are covered only for one year, and must buy AppleCare to get any free maintenance after that period.

With the 2 year guarantee, after 6 months you need to establish that the defect existed on the product at the time of purchase. So if the battery stops working after 18 months, you need to establish that it was a faulty battery when you bought it, instead of you damaging the battery through misuse. This even extends beyond 2 years, for the period of time that you would expect the item to work given the price of the product and the manufacturer's claims, but obviously it gets harder to establish the older the product.

[1] http://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/products/mac-english-uk....

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#175

Post by RBerenguel » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 5:48 PM UTC

andrelaszlo wrote: post #26

dchuk wrote: post #4

Isn't this sort of a cake-and-eat-it-too situation? If you want a slim, lightweight laptop that still performs at a high level, you can't expect the old pop out batteries with the little switch we grew up with on laptops. While $400 is expensive to replace a battery, it's obviously not as simple as just popping a new one in, which is the compromise one has to make if they want a Macbook Pro. If you want easily swappa…

Is this a trade-off that most buyers are aware of? I'm not sure it's as simple as "shaving off a couple of millimeters", but if that's the case I know I would personally trade those millimeters for better serviceability, especially the day I realize I need a new battery. I was thinking about switching to a Macbook Pro, but for me this is just another argument to go with something else. Can't deny that the hardware is…

My previous Macbook (early 2008 white, plastic one) lasted for 5 years, no issue. Battery was fine (slowly dying as all batteries, but no big deal, it just wouldn't last as long as it used to.) Then I got a message about the battery actually dying (get to service, the white early 2008 has user-replaceable battery, though.) But it was already the time I needed a more powerful computer, and I just got a new one and removed the battery of the old one (it still works perfectly fine, no longer as a portable though.) I don't expect a computer (i.e. all pieces together) to serve me for more than 4-5 years, so this battery life is more than I can expect. Of course, if it was a system I could tinker and slowly replace piece by piece, it could but I no longer feel the tradeoff of money/abilities/time is worth it.

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#176

Post by morganm » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 5:49 PM UTC

Daishiman wrote: post #168

pbreit wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much smarter to optimize for every day use than the 0 or 1 time you replace the battery.

4 days of battery downtime for replacement is inexcusable. There is no way I can take that time off from being productive. Whereas I can carry a machine that's literally 3 millimiters thicker.

Four days is a long weekend. I personally would welcome a forced vacation.

But if 1 piece of machinery really is that critical to your business, you'll have an identical standby ready to go when your primary one eventually craps out.

I've decided to let Apple handle inventorying my standby machine. I can walk into an Apple store and 5 minutes later be ready to go again. Then the high resale value of my old machine makes it easy to sell on craigslist.

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#177

Post by brentvatne » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 5:50 PM UTC

A couple of weeks ago I dropped off my well-used, out of warranty, never on AppleCare early-2012 macbook pro to get the keyboard replaced. It turned out that this repair would also, by necessity, replace the battery (it is part of the "top case"). ~$380USD, I was happy to pay that considering that my battery was shot and several of my keys no longer worked at all. A few days later I went to pick it up and they told me that they needed to replace the logic board as well because of an original manufacturing defect, and that I was eligible for a "quality program" screen replacement because the laminate was peeling. Also presumably because of the hassle they decided I was to be charged $235 USD instead of the original amount. I tested it out and bam, kernel panic within seconds of booting into the OS. Same thing on reboot. So they replaced the logic board again, same problem. Formatted the drive and installed the OS from a clean image, same problem. They decided that the best course of action was to replace the laptop entirely. So for $235 I got a brand new 2015 macbook pro.

Apple's in-store repair, in my experience at least, is fantastic. If something goes wrong they do whatever they can to address the issue. I'd recommend going through them if you're considering changing some of the internals of a macbook pro given how easily it can go wrong.

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#178

Post by ejdyksen » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 5:51 PM UTC

Daishiman wrote: post #168

pbreit wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much smarter to optimize for every day use than the 0 or 1 time you replace the battery.

4 days of battery downtime for replacement is inexcusable. There is no way I can take that time off from being productive. Whereas I can carry a machine that's literally 3 millimiters thicker.

> There is no way I can take that time off from being productive.

But surely you (or your workplace) have a backup plan if your laptop needs service that takes a few days. What would you do if you need a new screen, or a new hard drive, or a new fan... It's not like a laptop repair that takes a few days should be a big shock to anyone who's owned a few laptops (Apple or otherwise).

By the way, one of the things that the $500 Joint Venture program gets you at Apple is a loaner computer while your machine is out for service. So that's one option.

The other option, which we use at my work, is we have a spare laptop. It gets used for a number of purposes, one of which is a loaner for repairs.

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#179

Post by alistairSH » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 5:51 PM UTC

dchuk wrote: post #4

Isn't this sort of a cake-and-eat-it-too situation? If you want a slim, lightweight laptop that still performs at a high level, you can't expect the old pop out batteries with the little switch we grew up with on laptops. While $400 is expensive to replace a battery, it's obviously not as simple as just popping a new one in, which is the compromise one has to make if they want a Macbook Pro. If you want easily swappa…

If you want easily swappable batteries, get a different machine.

Does Apple make a user-serviceable laptop these days? I suppose you could switch to PC, but that's not as simple as spending your $3000 at BestBuy instead of the Apple store.

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#180

Post by hackuser » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 5:52 PM UTC

Is the trend toward non-user-replaceable batteries related to LiPo (lithium polymer) battery technology? My limited understanding is that LiPo batteries store more energy/volume or energy/mass than older tech but normally have plastic (i.e., non-rigid) packaging.