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EFF Wins Petition to Inspect and Modify Car Software

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61–70 of 112 posts

Re: EFF Wins Petition to Inspect and Modify Car Software

#61
post #17

Don't get me wrong, I'm pleased with the progress - but doesn't this just mean they'll make it harder to crack?

Harder DRM? They've tried that already

DRM can be totally baller, but if it has to be shown on a screen and played through speakers you're going to have an awfully hard time stopping anybody from making a DRM-free copy it.

Re: EFF Wins Petition to Inspect and Modify Car Software

#62
post #33

It should be noted that this is a very limited ruling. Only the owner can modify the car, and you can't go to a mechanic or third party to modify it (or inspect it), which will greatly restrict the application. Also this doesn't apply to Entertainment or Telemetrics portions. So your car could be straight up spying on you, or your manufacturer can leave unpatched security holes in your "Entertainment" system (which h…

Fortunateyly the software in your 2015 honda civic is nearly or completely identical to all other 2015 honda civics, though. I agree that its unfortunate, but being able to inspect the software in your car is nearly as good as being able to inspect other's or have other's inspect yours if you have the same make and year.

Well there is probably a pretty big difference between the normal civic, the hybrid civic, and the natural gas civic, but I don't think there will be lots of per car model/line differences, just that the inability to contract out things means that modification is limited to technical minded people (and no, artful dodges like "The mechanic will set it up, and the owner can push the button" are unlikely to fly).

Also it throws hassles at researchers, some cars have a lot of different combinations of things that might change the ECU software from engine choices to different model lines (Sport models often have different tunings) to even the type of gearbox (Manuals have different tuning than automatics which are different than CVTs, and advanced CVTs actually communicate with the ECU in complex ways that are only activated on the higher trims). No one is going to actually own 8 different Honda Accords just to legally work on all the firmwares. While I have no doubt that a lot of shortcutting will occur (i.e. people will dump the firmware and post it, and if and only if an issue is found will researchers bother to become nominal "owner" of a particular model) it adds a hassle, and a tinge of illegality which is completely unwarranted.

Re: EFF Wins Petition to Inspect and Modify Car Software

#63
post #48
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system sucks, but it's the system we have, and it costs money to fight these battles. If you like the result here, consider setting up a recurring donation to the EFF.

My "recurring donation" is to buy every humblebundle and give everything to the EFF.

I should do that. It would probably surpass whatever contribution I would end up giving them directly byquite a bit. I do want to support the developers though, so maybe I'll do 70% EFF, 25% devs, 5% humble tip (gotta keep the lights on).

Re: EFF Wins Petition to Inspect and Modify Car Software

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly nothing has entered the public domain in the U.S. in decades, and likely nearly nothing ever will again.

There was that time in the 70's when you had to re-up your Copyright, and a lot of stuff fell out, like Night of the Living Dead.

Night of the Living Dead failed to ever have copyright protection due to lack of a copyright notice or registration, not from a need for renewal. Renewal became automatic in 1964, and registration or notice became optional in 1989. (And in 1976 it became possible to register for up to 5 years after publication, to allow for fixing mistakes like with Night of the Living Dead.)

Re: EFF Wins Petition to Inspect and Modify Car Software

#65
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like great news for GOG.

>> They also got an exemption for modifying of abandoned games whose activation systems are long since gone That sounds to me like it would allow you to patch a game you already owned, but not to copy and sell that game. How does it help GOG?

The only thing that comes to my mind is that now it may make commercial sense for GOG to ask publishers for rights to sell games that require activation systems / servers that are no longer maintained.

Re: EFF Wins Petition to Inspect and Modify Car Software

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> They also got an exemption for modifying of abandoned games whose activation systems are long since gone That sounds to me like it would allow you to patch a game you already owned, but not to copy and sell that game. How does it help GOG?

The only thing that comes to my mind is that now it may make commercial sense for GOG to ask publishers for rights to sell games that require activation systems / servers that are no longer maintained.

But if you're selling it with the blessing of the owner, what was stopping you from asking "oh, we also need to patch the game so it will run - I assume you don't mind?"

For GOG to sell a game at all already requires that they explicitly cut a deal with the game owner. Fixing the game to run on a modern computer is a trivial part of that deal (and something they already do with their whole inventory).

Re: EFF Wins Petition to Inspect and Modify Car Software

#67
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually worked on this part of the exemption. It was granted in two parts. First, fans may now reverse engineer and host servers for games that are no longer hosted online. Metal Gear Solid 4 is a perfect example, but there are plenty of others. This is now legal, and considered fair use. MMO's are exempted, and defined as games where the world is persistent reguardless of number of players connected (IE, is the g…

Hi VonGuard, > and considered fair use The 1201 exemption process doesn't adjudicate whether things are fair use in a way that's binding on courts, although the Copyright Office does believe that it has to express some opinion about that the uses it approves are noninfringing. But a court doesn't have to agree with that substantive question: if someone sued you for running the server they could argue that it's not a…

Thanks for the clarification Schoen.

Re: EFF Wins Petition to Inspect and Modify Car Software

#68
post #53

I recently put a turbo on my van since I live high in the mountains where the atmospheric pressure is low and the performance loss is noticeable. Of course the ECU needs adjustments to the fuelling tables (you need to run rich under boost to prevent detonation), spark timing tables, as well as a patch to the OS to allow the use of a different manifold pressure sensor (default OS doesn't recognise press above 100kpa).…

You can modify your ECU all you want so long as it doesn't have any DRM-like protections.

Re: EFF Wins Petition to Inspect and Modify Car Software

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing that comes to my mind is that now it may make commercial sense for GOG to ask publishers for rights to sell games that require activation systems / servers that are no longer maintained.

But if you're selling it with the blessing of the owner, what was stopping you from asking "oh, we also need to patch the game so it will run - I assume you don't mind?" For GOG to sell a game at all already requires that they explicitly cut a deal with the game owner. Fixing the game to run on a modern computer is a trivial part of that deal (and something they already do with their whole inventory).

You're right.

Not enough coffee this morning.

Re: EFF Wins Petition to Inspect and Modify Car Software

#70
post #63
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My "recurring donation" is to buy every humblebundle and give everything to the EFF.

I should do that. It would probably surpass whatever contribution I would end up giving them directly byquite a bit. I do want to support the developers though, so maybe I'll do 70% EFF, 25% devs, 5% humble tip (gotta keep the lights on).

By the time a game hits a bundle the impact on the developer's bottom line is almost negligible. If you want to support developers, buy their games when they come out. Doing otherwise is "nice," but ineffective.
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