More parents, students saying 'no' to homework • Hacker News Board

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#11

Post by zaphar » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 5:06 PM UTC

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #4

I see several issues with the ideas presented here. Firstly, the idea that a parent should have control over homework in any capacity seems like a misguided idea. Secondly, the article dances around ideas but never touches on the importance of the content of the homework. Not all worksheets are created equal and it follows that neither are all hours spent at home working. There are big differences from a pedagogical…

     Firstly, the idea that a parent should have control over 
     homework in any capacity seems like a misguided idea

Full disclosure I'm a parent so biased. However with that said I know more about my child's workload than the teacher. The teacher knows how much homework they assign for "their" class. They don't know what the other classes assign. What extra curricular activities require or what chores the child has at home. Asking a Teacher to figure out the appropriate level of homework for a child is asking someone with inadequate information to make a decision on priorities. The person best suited to make an informed decision here is the parent.

EDIT: unbiased to biased.

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#12

Post by zaphar » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 5:07 PM UTC

zaccus wrote: post #8

Seriously, parents are complaining about 10-20 min of homework a night? Kids should be spending 1-2 hrs on homework every night, and if they run out of homework they should be working on a personal project or reading. That doesn't have to encroach on their fun time; I'm talking about 2 hrs max. Every night. That's not asking a lot. It's about learning how to manage your time and developing a productive routine. Kids…

Your sense of scale here is way off. My kids have 2-3 hours of homework a night 5 nights a week. Plus weekends. There have been times I've told my kids not to do the work and if their teacher asks they can take it up with me.

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#13

Post by beeboop » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 5:10 PM UTC

sotojuan wrote: post #9

a3voices wrote: post #6

I learned the most from doing homework and studying for tests. In class I mostly daydreamed and didn't pay attention to much.

This was me in high school, and even now in college. I couldn't get myself to do work during class and read or daydreamed (one time I brought a pillow to school). At home I did most of my learning and doing. I don't know why I was this way, but I think I was just more comfortable in my room and thus more likely to learn.

I think it makes sense. In a lecture you're having to learn at the pace of the lecturer. If it's too slow or too fast you lose interest. At home on your own you go at your own pace.

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#14

Post by bt3 » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 5:10 PM UTC

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #4

I see several issues with the ideas presented here. Firstly, the idea that a parent should have control over homework in any capacity seems like a misguided idea. Secondly, the article dances around ideas but never touches on the importance of the content of the homework. Not all worksheets are created equal and it follows that neither are all hours spent at home working. There are big differences from a pedagogical…

Playing Devil's advocate to your last point - standardization of curriculum (including handouts), is a dangerous game as students get older. When every classroom is taught the same, with the same lectures, notes, and handouts, the incentive to pay attention in class dwindles as the resources available for that class increase.

A better example may be a typical college course. Most freshman courses at any large University can have an upward of 500+ students. Depending on how the Professor conducts their class, some students may find it is not worth their time to attend class or complete homework themselves, when it's more time-advantageous to simply scheme with others in the course. If you want a tangible example, pull up your favorite "study" site (StudyBlue, Quizlet, CourseHero, Chegg) and view the plethora of paywalled material for classes.

Of course, as class size shrinks, this advantage drops, combined with tougher content, typically better incentives students to attend class and complete homework individually, rather than as a group.

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#15

Post by sotojuan » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 5:12 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #7

The vast majority of homework has little direct value. The real problem is many classes are poorly structured and need to crutch of outside work to cover the material. Even in college I often found reading the textbook was more useful and faster than attending class. PS: I still remember many math classes where attendance took 5 minutes, then 30 seconds of (new idea! yay), followed by 40 minutes of mind numbing bored…

I really hate how so many of my classes in college have mandatory assistance. In a lot of my classes the professor just poorly summarized the textbook.

I think some courses could take inspiration from my English classes. In them, we had to read (novel or literary criticism paper) by ourselves, but in class we only asked questions, discussed the works and got help with our writing. I don't know if this can be applied to Computer Science classes, but I liked it a lot.

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#16

Post by sotojuan » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 5:13 PM UTC

zaphar wrote: post #12

zaccus wrote: post #8

Seriously, parents are complaining about 10-20 min of homework a night? Kids should be spending 1-2 hrs on homework every night, and if they run out of homework they should be working on a personal project or reading. That doesn't have to encroach on their fun time; I'm talking about 2 hrs max. Every night. That's not asking a lot. It's about learning how to manage your time and developing a productive routine. Kids…

Your sense of scale here is way off. My kids have 2-3 hours of homework a night 5 nights a week. Plus weekends. There have been times I've told my kids not to do the work and if their teacher asks they can take it up with me.

And don't forget a lot of kids stay home late because of extracurricular activities. Some of my friends got home at 5pm!

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#17

Post by cpfohl » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 5:14 PM UTC

zaccus wrote: post #8

Seriously, parents are complaining about 10-20 min of homework a night? Kids should be spending 1-2 hrs on homework every night, and if they run out of homework they should be working on a personal project or reading. That doesn't have to encroach on their fun time; I'm talking about 2 hrs max. Every night. That's not asking a lot. It's about learning how to manage your time and developing a productive routine. Kids…

College kids will also typically spend a grand total of 12 hours in class in college (assuming 4 classes, each of which has three hours of in-class time).

Expecting a college student to then put in another 12-20 hours of personal work makes a ton of sense. Expecting a high schooler who already puts in 30 hours at school, to then also put in 14 hours or more of homework time seriously doesn't make sense.

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#18

Post by fiatmoney » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 5:14 PM UTC

"the notion that America can close the learning gap with China or India..."

Indian and Chinese students in America do as well or better than Indian and Chinese students in their home countries on any measure you'd like to name.

For that matter the same is true of Mexican students in the US vs. in Mexico, European students in the US vs. in Europe, etc.

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#19

Post by thedufer » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 5:15 PM UTC

zaccus wrote: post #8

Seriously, parents are complaining about 10-20 min of homework a night? Kids should be spending 1-2 hrs on homework every night, and if they run out of homework they should be working on a personal project or reading. That doesn't have to encroach on their fun time; I'm talking about 2 hrs max. Every night. That's not asking a lot. It's about learning how to manage your time and developing a productive routine. Kids…

Not being a parent, I don't know what it's like now, but high school was by far the busiest and most stressful time in my life. I saw an average of 2-3 hours of homework per night, after 1.5 hours commuting, 8 hours at school, and 2-3 hours at sports practice. On an average day, that leaves an hour for breakfast/dinner and 8.5 hours for sleep; multiple nights in a row of 4-5 hours of sleep and no other breaks were not unusual.

College is completely different. You spend something like 15 hours in classes instead of 35-40; of course you get homework.

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#20

Post by Retric » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 5:15 PM UTC

tjr wrote: post #2

Hmm. The article alludes to some studies that back up their point, but, anecdotally, I think I got more out of doing homework than I did out of sitting in class...

This right here is the core of a world of problems. Data contradicts gut feeling. Data must be wrong.