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Great Firewall rising: How China wages its war on the Internet

cnn.com

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Re: Great Firewall rising: How China wages its war on the Internet

#41

Post by pmlnr »

studentrob wrote: post #35
pmlnr wrote: post #27

Says the BBC, from a country that silently introduced a country-wide firewall of it's own for protecting people from porn, extremists and pedophiles. https://www.openrightsgroup.org/campaigns/censorship "Whoever is without sin among you, let him be the first to cast a stone at her." I know there are issues in China, but maybe fix our own problems first. P.S.: I've been to China, and I've seen people using tech even i…

There's a pretty big difference between blocking porn and blocking popular services used for communication by much of the rest of the world. I don't see a problem with one journalist or media outlet criticizing another country's policies. Given free access to information, people should be able to decide for themselves. The question is, when will Chinese citizens earn the right to openly criticize their government wit…

"blocking popular services used for communication by much of the rest of the world"

Uhm... Google and Facebook shares more or less the same userbase and that in numbers ( I mean real users, real people ) is comparable to the people in China alone, so 'popular services used for communication by much of the rest of the world' might be a bit of an overstatement.

(We also might just all be much happier without Facebook and less locked-in without Google but that's a private opinion.)

Github is indeed an issue, that really should not be blocked.

EDIT

As for criticizing the government... the Chinese government had made truly significant changes starting from the 90s. It's a slow progress, yes, and they do sacrifice certain rights of free speech in order to prevent chaos and wars. I believe this change is slowly on it's way, but this takes a really, really long time.

Let me tell a small story here. The company I work for is trying to establish some business in China but so far, they've failed. One of the reasons is that people there doesn't seem to trust reviews online, if it's from unknown origin. Known origin is someone they actually know, and they do trust the word and recommendation of those. This is exactly the environment I was raised in, in Eastern Europe - you don't trust what you don't know.

Believe it or not, this is a certain kind of criticism; questioning everything coming from the authorities. Yes, it is very different from the usual Western approach, and requires a different mindset; a mindset that is trying to avoid conflict and make the best out of the situation without upsetting anyone.

Criticism can happen on various levels, from drawing instigating pictures to a gentle smile, and I would not underestimate the power of the latter either.

Re: Great Firewall rising: How China wages its war on the Internet

#42

Post by pmlnr »

pmlnr wrote: post #27

Says the BBC, from a country that silently introduced a country-wide firewall of it's own for protecting people from porn, extremists and pedophiles. https://www.openrightsgroup.org/campaigns/censorship "Whoever is without sin among you, let him be the first to cast a stone at her." I know there are issues in China, but maybe fix our own problems first. P.S.: I've been to China, and I've seen people using tech even i…

I can't edit my entry anymore, but please be able to read between the lines.

"protecting people from porn, extremists and pedophiles."

That sounds great, but who decides what falls under extreme? For example, in the eyes of a religion, every other religion can be considered extreme content.

--

Also: yes, censorship is bad and yes, there should be no such thing, but there are worse things than that.

Re: Great Firewall rising: How China wages its war on the Internet

#43

Post by Tinyyy »

est wrote: post #23
zachb wrote: post #15

This is the same China whose central government, officially an atheist state, claims authority on deciding who the next Dalai Lama will be reincarnated as - http://time.com/3743742/dalai-lama-china-reincarnation-tibet... I'd love to hear perspective on this matter from people closer to the source.

This is simple, Dalai Lama by definition, since the beginning of all Dalai Lamas, is appointed by a central government. Fun fact: The Tibetan monk system is a grand scheme to reduce minority people fertility so ethics population is not a threat to central empire. Search for 黄教 减丁 if you are interested.

I searched for 黄教 减丁 but all I see are some random Tiebas. Do you have an authoritative source on this?

Re: Great Firewall rising: How China wages its war on the Internet

#44

Post by pmlnr »

sharetea wrote: post #36
kercker wrote: post #26

Most of my friends here in China just do good without the open internet. Like the article says, for every major blocked application or website, there is a home-grown substitute. People can get the information or the service they need from these substitutes. I personally find that that the Chinese version of Wikipedia is blocked is annoying. If the Great Firewall must exist, I'd like it to be more advanced. This way,…

So where does your friend go to get information about 1.) a list of corrupt officials and what activities they're involved in 2.) the richest 70 members of China’s NPC have a larger combined wealth ($89.8bn in 2011) than that of all 535 members of the US congress? 3.) Tiananmen square 4.) Great Famine 5.) China is insolvent? ?

1, from their friends, as it has always been the case there. Search for "Heaven is high and the emperor is far away".

2, There was a short period in time, involving 2 World Wars when the super-rich was not that super rich. Before and after, this was always like this in history, everywhere.

3, 4, 5, China is suppressing information, yes; otherwise there were civil wars, and that is not necessarily better. See current Middle East.

Yes, free information is good, but totally free information would first require solving all the other issues; otherwise it leads to fights and wars which nearly never results in any good. History has plenty to tell on that.

Re: Great Firewall rising: How China wages its war on the Internet

#45

Post by Frqy3 »

70seconds wrote: post #2

Trust me CNN, it is hardly different from how we wage a war on the Internet (CISA, CISPA, TPP and what not). Do you not use that ton of cruft on your site with similar designs?

The US tends to more of an Orwell (monitor) and Huxley (distract) approach to control rather than heavy handed blocking. But then, they have more experience in propaganda than the Chinese.

Re: Great Firewall rising: How China wages its war on the Internet

#46

Post by studentrob »

pmlnr wrote: post #41
studentrob wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a pretty big difference between blocking porn and blocking popular services used for communication by much of the rest of the world. I don't see a problem with one journalist or media outlet criticizing another country's policies. Given free access to information, people should be able to decide for themselves. The question is, when will Chinese citizens earn the right to openly criticize their government wit…

"blocking popular services used for communication by much of the rest of the world" Uhm... Google and Facebook shares more or less the same userbase and that in numbers ( I mean real users, real people ) is comparable to the people in China alone, so 'popular services used for communication by much of the rest of the world' might be a bit of an overstatement. (We also might just all be much happier without Facebook a…

I disagree. Granting free speech does not mean war. It means a better economy. China's economy is plateauing. It will not get a major boost from, for example, buying US patents en masse. China needs more homemade innovation. As you say, they will get the best innovation from people they trust. They can get even more of that from people who feel free to think, communicate and express themselves. It's currently easier to do all that outside China than it is within. Therefore the brightest leave and other countries benefit from China's cream of the crop.

There are plenty of examples of other Asian countries which have the same trust issues you mention and also have free speech. They have not descended into war. Their economies have improved. Are there disputes that play out on TV and in newspapers? Yes. Are people embarrassed? Yes. Is it the end of the world? No.

Re: Great Firewall rising: How China wages its war on the Internet

#47

Post by kercker »

sharetea wrote: post #36
kercker wrote: post #26

Most of my friends here in China just do good without the open internet. Like the article says, for every major blocked application or website, there is a home-grown substitute. People can get the information or the service they need from these substitutes. I personally find that that the Chinese version of Wikipedia is blocked is annoying. If the Great Firewall must exist, I'd like it to be more advanced. This way,…

So where does your friend go to get information about 1.) a list of corrupt officials and what activities they're involved in 2.) the richest 70 members of China’s NPC have a larger combined wealth ($89.8bn in 2011) than that of all 535 members of the US congress? 3.) Tiananmen square 4.) Great Famine 5.) China is insolvent? ?

People in my village get corrupt information from watching TV, browsing the web, and most importantly from chatting with others, from rumors. They talked about rumors about 100+ billion yuan involved in Zhou Yongkang's corruption. They talked the affairs between previous President Jiang Zemin and singer Song Zuying. They talked about the former propaganda head Li Changchun directed the murder of a policewoman. You see, we can get many knowlege from chattng with each other.

From the daily newspapers,we can get the impression that people in NPC are super riches. But members of NPC are puppet, we don't care that much of their wealth than the wealth of the officials of real powers.

People also get information from blogs and BBS.

Our grandparents went through the great famine, the cultural revolution. If we are curious, they have many stories to tell us. I get many information about that period from grandpa.

Re: Great Firewall rising: How China wages its war on the Internet

#48

Post by tuxracer »

pmlnr wrote: post #27

Says the BBC, from a country that silently introduced a country-wide firewall of it's own for protecting people from porn, extremists and pedophiles. https://www.openrightsgroup.org/campaigns/censorship "Whoever is without sin among you, let him be the first to cast a stone at her." I know there are issues in China, but maybe fix our own problems first. P.S.: I've been to China, and I've seen people using tech even i…

The false equivalence here is off the charts.

Let's compare: http://image.baidu.com/search/index?tn=baiduimage&ipn=r&ct=2... to https://www.google.com.hk/search?q=%E7%8E%8B%E7%BB%B4%E6%9E%...

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