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SXSW Cancels Gamer Panels After Threats

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Re: SXSW Cancels Gamer Panels After Threats

#71

Post by Fuzzwah »

nradov wrote: post #60
chasing wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're interested in interactive media -- and you've had an account on Hacker News for 8+ years, so let's assume so -- then you really should have at least a passing understanding of how video games work. Both technically and creatively. And as businesses. It's a fascinating topic -- and arguably we're going through a bit of a golden age! If you're just interested in making fun of nerds for liking video games... A…

Ha ha. I used to be a hard core gamer. Then I grew up, moved out of my parents' house, and got a life. There's nothing wrong with playing games as a hobby. The losers are the ones who actually care about games and take them seriously.

For people to play games as a hobby, at least a few people have to take them seriously...

Re: SXSW Cancels Gamer Panels After Threats

#72

Post by interpol_p »

[deleted] wrote: post #23
douche wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which side is which here? I'm not really clued into the whole GamerGate thing... I have seen Randi Lee Harper say some very unpleasant things, and some even more unpleasant things said about her. I know nothing about the Open Gaming Society, but reading their website it seems like a relatively sane organization.

[deleted]

It is a bizarre and vile thing that Feminist Frequency has come to be associated with "anti-GamerGate" when it has primarily been about the critical discussion of women in media, including video games.

The very fact that discussing the representation of women in media can be seen as "anti" anything makes me incredibly sad.

Feminist Frequency has always produced well researched and well argued videos. They incite much needed and level-headed discussion about how we represent women in games and other media. That anyone can throw hate at them for it suggests we have a long way to go as a society.

Re: SXSW Cancels Gamer Panels After Threats

#73

Post by carrja99 »

falsedan wrote: post #40
eertami wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know nothing about the subject, but I've seen this twitter account before and instantly assumed it was parody. Is it a character being portrayed or a real person because I still can't tell.

A parody of what? Seems like a regular human making normal tweets about interacting with ridiculous close-minded misoginist chaps.

Pretty sure the parent is commenting on the sheer volume of tweets from the account.

Re: SXSW Cancels Gamer Panels After Threats

#74

Post by mcphage »

BlackAura wrote: post #69
[deleted] wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

#3 is... a bunch of paranoid conspiracy theory bullshit. Let's have a look at the first entry. I'll probably get bored after a few of these, but... whatever. Charge 1 - Leigh Alexander stands accused of writing an article that GG disagree with, and that many of them inexplicably interpreted as some kind of threat, or something. I don't know. The article was basically about how video games have become mainstream, the…

MRS ALEXANDER DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT JOIN THE CRIMINAL COLLUSION NETWORK "linkedin.com"?

Re: SXSW Cancels Gamer Panels After Threats

#75

Post by xlm1717 »

BlackAura wrote: post #69
[deleted] wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

#3 is... a bunch of paranoid conspiracy theory bullshit. Let's have a look at the first entry. I'll probably get bored after a few of these, but... whatever. Charge 1 - Leigh Alexander stands accused of writing an article that GG disagree with, and that many of them inexplicably interpreted as some kind of threat, or something. I don't know. The article was basically about how video games have become mainstream, the…

I don't think it's a bunch of paranoid conspiracy theory bullshit. A lot of the items on that list are known and established facts. One of the ones that GG brings special attention to is the relationship between Nathan Grayson and Zoe Quinn, and how Grayson covered Quinn without revealing this relationship, a clear conflict of interest. To make it look worse Kyle Orland suggested to the mailing list that they not even cover news of this disclosure. [1]

For his part, Kyle then went on to apologize [2], but if GG had not been a watchdog in gaming journalism ethics, we already had an idea of how the story was going to be spinned.

[1] https://archive.is/NaHx0#selection-333.0-345.310

[2] http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/09/addressing-allegations...

Re: SXSW Cancels Gamer Panels After Threats

#76

Post by 13thLetter »

MBCook wrote: post #25
striking wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's fair to either side of the discussion, or to SXSW. They reportedly received threats and piles of attention over both panels, and they didn't want to deal with that. They allowed both panels to sign up in the name of neutrality and diversity of ideas. And I guess people from both sides made sure neither could have nice things. (SXSW didn't blame anyone, but that's my guess.)

> They reportedly received threats and piles of attention over both panels, and they didn't want to deal with that. What, exactly, did they think would happen when they stepped into GG? > They allowed both panels to sign up in the name of neutrality and diversity of ideas. That's bullshit. When one group is infamous for dragging the other through the trash, issuing death threats, bomb threats, etc. there is no 'neutr…

> But I seriously doubt the anti-GG people sent death threats.

Anti-GG have in fact called in bomb threats against pro-GG meetings multiple times, so that doesn't follow.

Look, it's clear you feel strongly about this, but when you dismiss the misdeeds of people on your "side" you are doing exactly the same thing you're condemning on the other "side." It's better to take a civil attitude towards everyone. Discussion is good, threats and hyperbole are not. Gaming would be better off without the trolls and frothers on both sides of this mess.

Re: SXSW Cancels Gamer Panels After Threats

#77

Post by SomeCallMeTim »

xlm1717 wrote: post #75
BlackAura wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#3 is... a bunch of paranoid conspiracy theory bullshit. Let's have a look at the first entry. I'll probably get bored after a few of these, but... whatever. Charge 1 - Leigh Alexander stands accused of writing an article that GG disagree with, and that many of them inexplicably interpreted as some kind of threat, or something. I don't know. The article was basically about how video games have become mainstream, the…

I don't think it's a bunch of paranoid conspiracy theory bullshit. A lot of the items on that list are known and established facts. One of the ones that GG brings special attention to is the relationship between Nathan Grayson and Zoe Quinn, and how Grayson covered Quinn without revealing this relationship, a clear conflict of interest. To make it look worse Kyle Orland suggested to the mailing list that they not eve…

>Grayson covered Quinn without revealing this relationship

You're repeating lies. A quote from the article I linked above:

>But Grayson never reviewed Depression Quest. He once wrote half a sentence about the game, before his relationship with Quinn ever started, but that's it. Critics of Quinn and Grayson have also raised concerns about this Kotaku article [1]—it was written before they started dating.

This has been confirmed directly by Kotoku and Grayson on multiple occasions. Google it.

Please repeat after me: There is no smoking gun.

The entire GamerGate movement is based on lies, misogyny, and anti-feminism. Find a different hashtag if you care about journalism ethics, and stop only blaming the women. The journalist, in this case, was a man, but he wasn't doxed, just Quinn! In other cases it was the female journalists who were harassed. (Not that doxing is ever the right answer! And not that I should even have to explain that...)

No, GG is clearly not about journalistic ethics. It's a group that's attempting to bully people into reporting only what they want to hear -- and they find it easier to bully the women. Charming, really.

Find a new group to defend, or risk being painted with a rather nasty brush.

[1] http://tmi.kotaku.com/the-indie-game-reality-tv-show-that-we...

Re: SXSW Cancels Gamer Panels After Threats

#78

Post by Nadya »

SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #77
xlm1717 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's a bunch of paranoid conspiracy theory bullshit. A lot of the items on that list are known and established facts. One of the ones that GG brings special attention to is the relationship between Nathan Grayson and Zoe Quinn, and how Grayson covered Quinn without revealing this relationship, a clear conflict of interest. To make it look worse Kyle Orland suggested to the mailing list that they not eve…

>Grayson covered Quinn without revealing this relationship You're repeating lies. A quote from the article I linked above: >But Grayson never reviewed Depression Quest. He once wrote half a sentence about the game, before his relationship with Quinn ever started, but that's it. Critics of Quinn and Grayson have also raised concerns about this Kotaku article [1]—it was written before they started dating. This has been…

>The entire GamerGate movement is based on lies, misogyny, and anti-feminism.

Not true. Although an initial lie may have sparked it - a raging fire isn't started without a lot of fuel lying around to keep it burning.

>Find a different hashtag if you care about journalism ethics, and stop only blaming the women.

We already did that. A different hashtag would do what exactly? Nothing. Other than causing a splinter group, confusion, and easier co-opting of the tag. Or should we go back to #5GuysBurgersAndFries and #Quinnspiracy? Those were things. Those are things separate from #GamerGate (hence the different tag).

>The journalist, in this case, was a man, but he wasn't doxed, just Quinn

In that particular case - and while doxing is wrong - don't pretend "only anti-GG" get doxed. [0] [1] Their is also a stark contrast between how the two sides blame each other. Anti-GG has no problem blaming GG in a heartbeat while GG blames third party trolls and not the opposing side because more likely than not - it's third party trolls.

>No, GG is clearly not about journalistic ethics.

Which is why countless media publishers have adopted or updated their ethical standards and practices from Oct-Jan of last year? Must be some sort of non-pressured, weird, coincidental timing that they all felt the need to disclose their ethical standards. [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]

Complaints to the FTC even caused Kotaku and other publishers to add disclosure for affiliate linking. [7]

Unless you're saying 2-7 have nothing whatsoever to do with #GG? I find that a bit of a stretch to believe.

Their is also the donations and support from 4chan/GG towards TFYC [8] which Zoe Quinn tried to lambaste and media outlets refused to cover. How women-hating of #GG to support female devs when another female dev was shouting down at them.

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2tbbkg/a_fi...

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOioaFpZ3tU

[2] http://www.ign.com/wikis/ign/Standards_and_Practices

[3] http://www.destructoid.com/a-word-on-ethics-280654.phtml

[4] http://www.gameranx.com/about/

[5] http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/ed...

[6] http://www.eurogamer.net/policies.php?view=how-we-work

[7] http://techraptor.net/content/ftc-forces-gawker-make-disclos...

[8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fine_Young_Capitalists

Re: SXSW Cancels Gamer Panels After Threats

#79

Post by cbsmith »

MBCook wrote: post #42
Zikes wrote: post #36

The Gamergate/Anti-Gamergate movement has to be a Sociology PhD Candidate's thesis topic. It's fascinating how utterly polarizing it is, I mean just look at the sort of comments we're seeing right here on HN, and we tend to be the levelheaded and civil ones! Both "sides" are victims of their own success. In spite of whatever potentially valid points they have, the moment someone figures out which "side" you are on yo…

> and we tend to be the levelheaded and civil ones! I've seen a lot of things discussed on HN. I think that may be wishful thinking. Just because HN isn't full of straight out cussing and insults doesn't mean we're level headed or civil.

"levelheaded and civil ones" was clearly meant in relative terms. HN is not level headed or civil, we're just more level headed or civil.

Re: SXSW Cancels Gamer Panels After Threats

#80

Post by SomeCallMeTim »

Nadya wrote: post #78
SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Grayson covered Quinn without revealing this relationship You're repeating lies. A quote from the article I linked above: >But Grayson never reviewed Depression Quest. He once wrote half a sentence about the game, before his relationship with Quinn ever started, but that's it. Critics of Quinn and Grayson have also raised concerns about this Kotaku article [1]—it was written before they started dating. This has been…

>The entire GamerGate movement is based on lies, misogyny, and anti-feminism. Not true. Although an initial lie may have sparked it - a raging fire isn't started without a lot of fuel lying around to keep it burning. >Find a different hashtag if you care about journalism ethics, and stop only blaming the women. We already did that. A different hashtag would do what exactly? Nothing. Other than causing a splinter grou…

>Although an initial lie may have sparked it

Is there a single confirmed case of any issue that the #gg outrage is based on? Between the various topics above (Quinn, femfreq, "We are all gamers now" article) that, at least seemingly, spawned #GamerGate, it seems like it grew entirely from mob rage, and continues along in that vein.

>Complaints to the FTC even caused Kotaku and other publishers to add disclosure for affiliate linking.

Even terrible events can lead to positive results. A particularly bad fire that kills hundreds may get the fire code changed so that thousands will be saved; that doesn't mean that we encourage disasters for the sake of improving safety of those who survive.

The #GamerGate tag is irrevocably tied to all of the hate spewed by people associated with the tag at this point. It doesn't even matter that some people associated with the group may have done some good, because a lot of people carrying that banner spew misogynist crap and other hate speech pretty much constantly. It's not even the doxing that I'm talking about here; I'm just observing that, when I see a #gg tweet in the wild, it is almost universally associated with some form of hatred.

If you come along and tell me that those aren't the "real" GG, that the real GG is only about journalistic ethics in games, why should I believe you when most of what I see associated with the tag is garbage? If you're honestly not a misogynist, then I have bad news for you: Most of the people who tweet using #gamergate are, and you should find a different tag to represent the positive things you are doing, or you will be associated with what they're saying. If you don't mind being associated with what they say, then...well, I have nothing more to say.

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