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The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)

#21

Post by mamon »

mgraczyk wrote: post #2

I doubt that people became more utilitarian as they became more drunk. A simpler explanation is the participants answered the questions using the same altered thinking drunk people use to choose their own behavior; They think far less than normal about the social consequences of their actions. You don't want to flip the trolley switch in part because you feel more likely to be blamed for the outcome, or to be held ac…

More easily explained as: "alcohol shuts down emotions, so the logic is all that remains"

Re: The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)

#22

Post by mgraczyk »

mamon wrote: post #21
mgraczyk wrote: post #2

I doubt that people became more utilitarian as they became more drunk. A simpler explanation is the participants answered the questions using the same altered thinking drunk people use to choose their own behavior; They think far less than normal about the social consequences of their actions. You don't want to flip the trolley switch in part because you feel more likely to be blamed for the outcome, or to be held ac…

More easily explained as: "alcohol shuts down emotions, so the logic is all that remains"

I don't think alcohol shuts down emotions. Anecdotally speaking, alcohol seems to enhance feelings of anger and happiness in certain individuals.

Re: The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)

#24

Post by id »

Theodores wrote: post #5

If you were to ask 102 sober people if they would drive whilst under the influence of alcohol, then you would get 102 definite 'no' answers. Okay, some HN person might have some convoluted 'no' and some bored person might throw in some other silly answer, but, generally, you would get 102 'no' answers to this simple question. Obviously none of this group of 102 would ever drink and then drive whilst under the influen…

Some of those people would only say 'no' because that's the only socially acceptable answer.

Re: The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)

#25

Post by mamon »

mgraczyk wrote: post #22
mamon wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More easily explained as: "alcohol shuts down emotions, so the logic is all that remains"

I don't think alcohol shuts down emotions. Anecdotally speaking, alcohol seems to enhance feelings of anger and happiness in certain individuals.

Isn't shutting down emotions the main reason why people drink alcohol in the first place? You get dumped by a girl - you drink. You get fired from the job - you go to a bar for a few shots. Your favorite basketball team loses the match - you get a beer or two. That's why the main part of rehab for alcoholics is learning how to deal with emotions without drinking.

Re: The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)

#26

Post by spacemanmatt »

mamon wrote: post #25
mgraczyk wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think alcohol shuts down emotions. Anecdotally speaking, alcohol seems to enhance feelings of anger and happiness in certain individuals.

Isn't shutting down emotions the main reason why people drink alcohol in the first place? You get dumped by a girl - you drink. You get fired from the job - you go to a bar for a few shots. Your favorite basketball team loses the match - you get a beer or two. That's why the main part of rehab for alcoholics is learning how to deal with emotions without drinking.

Does an angry drunk seem shut down to you?

Re: The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)

#27

Post by spacemanmatt »

Theodores wrote: post #5

If you were to ask 102 sober people if they would drive whilst under the influence of alcohol, then you would get 102 definite 'no' answers. Okay, some HN person might have some convoluted 'no' and some bored person might throw in some other silly answer, but, generally, you would get 102 'no' answers to this simple question. Obviously none of this group of 102 would ever drink and then drive whilst under the influen…

If you qualified the question with, "in the desert" a lot of answers would change. I would gladly drive drunk and shoot my guns out the windows if I was sure no harm could come of it.

Re: The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)

#28

Post by sokoloff »

nickodell wrote: post #19
mgraczyk wrote: post #2

I doubt that people became more utilitarian as they became more drunk. A simpler explanation is the participants answered the questions using the same altered thinking drunk people use to choose their own behavior; They think far less than normal about the social consequences of their actions. You don't want to flip the trolley switch in part because you feel more likely to be blamed for the outcome, or to be held ac…

You can slightly change the context of the problem, and it entirely changes the character of responses: Imagine you're an accountant working for the government. You choose how medical research funds are spent. One day, you notice that there are two equally expensive programs: Program A, which will save one life next year, and Program B, which could save five lives next year. Program A is being funded, but Program B i…

> two equally expensive programs: Program A, which will save one life next year, and Program B, which could save five lives next year.

For me, it depends on the chances of "could save five lives" and the cost of the program.

If the chance of "could save 5" is under 20%, no, you don't divert the funds.

If the total expense of the program is over some threshold per life saved, and there is another opportunity, C, elsewhere to expend those funds with a better outcome (more lives saved/extended/improved), you defund both A & B in favor of that other program.

Re: The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)

#29

Post by johnchristopher »

mamon wrote: post #25
mgraczyk wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think alcohol shuts down emotions. Anecdotally speaking, alcohol seems to enhance feelings of anger and happiness in certain individuals.

Isn't shutting down emotions the main reason why people drink alcohol in the first place? You get dumped by a girl - you drink. You get fired from the job - you go to a bar for a few shots. Your favorite basketball team loses the match - you get a beer or two. That's why the main part of rehab for alcoholics is learning how to deal with emotions without drinking.

You started with `people' in mind en ended up with `alcoholics'. Most people don't end up alcoholic and so don't drink to shut down emotions.

Re: The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)

#30

Post by Const-me »

jmnicolas wrote: post #14
Const-me wrote: post #12

“Blood alcohol concentration predicts utilitarian responses in moral dilemmas” — seriously? Blood alcohol concentration correlates to unlawful behavior. For both dilemmas, a person who won’t touch that switch or won’t push anyone is legally innocent. There’s no way he’ll have to go to the court, while the organizer[s] of those experiments will be charged with a 1st degree murder and found guilty. OTOH, a person who w…

Fwiw, French don't obsess as much as the Americans about the legality of their actions, so I don't think the participants were influenced by the (virtual) likelihood of going to court for their decision.

You don't need to be obsessed about legality of your actions. Not wanting to go to jail is good motivation, at least for sober people.

French penal code 221-1 says “wilful causing of the death of another person is murder. It is punished with thirty years' criminal imprisonment.” 30 years for touching that railway switch is a lot…

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