The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)
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The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)
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Re: The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)
#2I doubt that people became more utilitarian as they became more drunk. A simpler explanation is the participants answered the questions using the same altered thinking drunk people use to choose their own behavior; They think far less than normal about the social consequences of their actions.
You don't want to flip the trolley switch in part because you feel more likely to be blamed for the outcome, or to be held accountable for making the wrong decision. After drinking a bit of alcohol, it is easier to forget about how others will perceive your actions and instead think about the physical consequences of the actions themselves.
Re: The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)
#3That was my first thought too. In the article they talk about decreased empathy, but maybe it's social awareness.
I also feel like if I was sober, and that dude walked up to me, I would tell him what I actually think (don't kill the guy). If I was drunk, I would just say whatever I thought was the most amusing, which is clearly the more callous response.
They need to do a randomized experiment. It could be the social environment, it could be the types of people who like to drink a lot are more unfeeling, etc
Re: The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)
#4I didn't read the study but whenever you ask these questions, you'd also need to account for the legal implications.
I doubt any court in any country would say "You did the right thing" flipping the switch or pushing that person off the bridge. IOW, you're likelihood for ending up in prison for a good amount of time is much higher.
Furthermore, it's entirely possible that we are even conditioned to say it's wrong to flip the switch because that's how the laws are.
An interesting discussion about this problem and its legal implications is [0] - a dozen or so pages but it will make you think for days about it (read the PDF and not only the wikipedia article)
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Case_of_the_Speluncean_Exp...
Re: The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)
#5If you were to ask 102 sober people if they would drive whilst under the influence of alcohol, then you would get 102 definite 'no' answers. Okay, some HN person might have some convoluted 'no' and some bored person might throw in some other silly answer, but, generally, you would get 102 'no' answers to this simple question.
Obviously none of this group of 102 would ever drink and then drive whilst under the influence of alcohol, then be silly enough to get caught. That is what you would think if you took the survey results as proof of something. However, maybe not tonight or even some night soon, some of those people will drink and drive, maybe to get caught.
So, if Mr Police Officer stops one of our 102, weaving across the road, driving home drunk, does the drunkard have a) a bundle of feeble excuses and lies or b) a well thought out, coherent reason for driving under the influence? It is a), not b). My point being that 'cold logic' does not apply to 'drunk people' and the best test of that is actual actions, e.g. propensity to drive under the influence, rather than some notional question about would you 'save this baby squirrel or let the holocaust happen?'
Re: The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)
#6In addition to the points already made here, there is a difference between what people say they would do and what they would actually do. This difference may be bigger or smaller for drunk people but in any case, what we learn from a study like this is about how people present themselves, not how they act.
Re: The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)
#7I doubt that people became more utilitarian as they became more drunk. A simpler explanation is the participants answered the questions using the same altered thinking drunk people use to choose their own behavior; They think far less than normal about the social consequences of their actions. You don't want to flip the trolley switch in part because you feel more likely to be blamed for the outcome, or to be held ac…
This is, of course, exactly correct and gets at the essence of what always bothered me about the trolley problem. The problem is usually presented with the idea that it offers some insight into how typical human behavior is seemingly at odds with utilitarian concept of the "value" of an individual or groups of human lives. The fact that the switch puller might be subject to some kind of judgement for their actions is typically ignored, but this is almost certainly a huge part of any effective hedonistic calculus that humans may or may not be engaged in.
Re: The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)
#8This part is kind of a deal breaker:
"Duke also recognized that the implications of the study are limited, especially because the sample size is so small. Plus, the questions themselves have flaws."
Re: The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)
#9I doubt that people became more utilitarian as they became more drunk. A simpler explanation is the participants answered the questions using the same altered thinking drunk people use to choose their own behavior; They think far less than normal about the social consequences of their actions. You don't want to flip the trolley switch in part because you feel more likely to be blamed for the outcome, or to be held ac…
This is, of course, exactly correct and gets at the essence of what always bothered me about the trolley problem. The problem is usually presented with the idea that it offers some insight into how typical human behavior is seemingly at odds with utilitarian concept of the "value" of an individual or groups of human lives. The fact that the switch puller might be subject to some kind of judgement for their actions is…
Not just the social judgment, but also the judgment of your own conscience.
Whether it's rational or not, I'm going to spend less time awake at night for the rest of my life worrying about the multiple people I allowed to get run over by a train than I'm gonna spend worrying about the one person I actively caused to get run over by a train.
Come to think of it, I suppose that heavily discounting the possibility of future regret is also something that drunk people tend to do.
Re: The Cold Logic of Drunk People (2014)
#10In addition to the points already made here, there is a difference between what people say they would do and what they would actually do. This difference may be bigger or smaller for drunk people but in any case, what we learn from a study like this is about how people present themselves, not how they act.
True, but there's some insight to be gained from what people say they think.
Asking drunk people philosophical questions seems to be a pretty promising field of research.