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The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

nytimes.com

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Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#61

Post by lostcolony »

websocketpuppet wrote: post #26
xacaxulu wrote: post #13

I was born into a single parent family in a trailer park. I worked my way out of that situation including serving in the US Marines in order to pay for college. Even coming from a background that should have led my family to use welfare (mom was too proud and cleaned houses instead) I tend to lean more towards the idea that welfare and the nanny state in general hurt more than they help. The CATO Institute does a lot…

This shows the gaming of the US Welfare system and the inherent disincentives to work. http://www.salon.com/2010/03/16/hipsters_food_stamps_pinched...

No it doesn't. It shows that people who qualify for food stamps (they're still unemployed or low income) don't just have to get crappy food that is terrible for them, and that they are autonomous adults who, though qualifying for aid, are still able to decide how to best spend it based upon the various resources they have available to them. They aren't forced to spend it on just ramen while looking ashamed and embarrassed in the store just to placate those not in the same situation.

Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#62

Post by rayiner »

mikeash wrote: post #57
rayiner wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at it this other way: is there something we could afford to provide for the cost of those TVs and iPhones that would ensure a good chance of those people lifting themselves out of poverty? If the answer is yes, then you've discovered a game changer: for a few thousand dollars per person, we could end poverty! The government should just buy those things for people directly and watch the magic happen. If the answe…

What if there is such a thing, but it only works if the people themselves do it, not the government? For a concrete example, it seems to me that one thing that helps people get out of poverty is having some savings. Being poor is expensive, often because large expenses compound due to financing, late fees, or even just an inability to make bulk purchases. Having a financial cushion can make life a lot cheaper. But th…

The few thousand dollars you might save not buying a TV or cell phone isn't going to do shit to get you out of poverty. You can't save your way out of being poor a nickle and dime at a time.

Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#63

Post by tremols »

I think that either the author got it wrong, or its just cheap socialist propaganda.

Corruption is not about buying alcohol and tobacco or avoiding work, it is about becoming dependent on nanny estate to a point of:

a) blindly supporting the populist politicians even if they are corrupt.

b) ignoring the consequences of unsustainable public spending like debt and inflation. (Again, while corrupt bankers and bureaucrats become richer creating a greater inequality).

Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#64

Post by mikeash »

rayiner wrote: post #62
mikeash wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if there is such a thing, but it only works if the people themselves do it, not the government? For a concrete example, it seems to me that one thing that helps people get out of poverty is having some savings. Being poor is expensive, often because large expenses compound due to financing, late fees, or even just an inability to make bulk purchases. Having a financial cushion can make life a lot cheaper. But th…

The few thousand dollars you might save not buying a TV or cell phone isn't going to do shit to get you out of poverty. You can't save your way out of being poor a nickle and dime at a time.

It means you can stop wasting money on buying necessities constantly in small quantities, not pay massive interest on credit cards or payday loans because your needs a sudden repair, etc. Will this solve the problem? Surely not for everybody. But a big problem (even if far from the only problem) with getting out of poverty is that it's a trap because it's so expensive to be poor.

Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#66

Post by felipellrocha »

xacaxulu wrote: post #13

I was born into a single parent family in a trailer park. I worked my way out of that situation including serving in the US Marines in order to pay for college. Even coming from a background that should have led my family to use welfare (mom was too proud and cleaned houses instead) I tend to lean more towards the idea that welfare and the nanny state in general hurt more than they help. The CATO Institute does a lot…

Wait... So you're saying a government program that pays well allowed you and your family to move out of poverty?

Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#67

Post by atmosx »

xacaxulu wrote: post #13

I was born into a single parent family in a trailer park. I worked my way out of that situation including serving in the US Marines in order to pay for college. Even coming from a background that should have led my family to use welfare (mom was too proud and cleaned houses instead) I tend to lean more towards the idea that welfare and the nanny state in general hurt more than they help. The CATO Institute does a lot…

Congratulations, you've been through a lot and came out nicely.

I believe that people take for granted situations that are not... Granted. A a 5-year old who lives in Bronx and his mother sells drugs for a living, doesn't have a choice. By the time he is 15, his future is already seriously broken 99 out of 100 times. Of course there are exceptions, but it's like startups... For every team that succeeds there are 1.000 smart, interesting, extremely hard-working team that fails for a huge variety of reasons.

IMHO having a parent that will teach you how to face problems, life, etc. is more valuable than money per-se.

You had your mother who was too proud, so she fought. Now you seem to have the same stance towards difficulties. Other children do not have mother like yours.

Maybe we owe more to the society than we like to reckon[1].

[1] http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2009/10/cla...

Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#68

Post by lwhalen »

jokoon wrote: post #55
bigforbritches wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agenda or not, data-driven or not, thoroughly studied or not, authoritative-backers or not it all boils down to how people feel about welfare. All else is largely pencil-pushing. If you want to shape economic policy that is sustainable & impactful, it has to make a large allowance for how people feel about welfare. Let me elaborate. You can make well-reasoned arguments and appeal to the sound nature of people and hop…

> most sensible workaday Americans Let those people be thankful they have a job, instead of complaining about the one who don't. If they are not satisfied, let them ask for a raise or quit and join people on welfare. Your feelings of "hurt" makes me chuckle. Handouts have the merits of inhibiting crime and violence. You do not want to have so many people on the street without anything to put a foot on, ready to organ…

Ask the Anglo-Saxons how well Danegeld worked out for them.

Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#69

Post by mikeash »

orangecat wrote: post #50
abalone wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey guess what? Silicon Valley is a product of massive amounts of government funding too. DARPA's budget is about $3B this year alone. You can thank Uncle Sam for autonomous vehicles, Siri and the Internet, to pick just three. So if investing taxes in people isn't "free market capitalism" then neither is the tech industry.

DARPA's budget is about $3B this year alone. Compared to $10 billion in R&D for Microsoft and Intel and $8 billion for Google: http://fortune.com/2014/11/17/top-10-research-development/

Pretty much all of that money comes from selling stuff they are only able to sell because of previous government R&D.

For example, without the government leaning heavily on integrated circuits in the 60s, would Microsoft and Google even exist today?

Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#70

Post by ISL »

lazyant wrote: post #28
xacaxulu wrote: post #13

I was born into a single parent family in a trailer park. I worked my way out of that situation including serving in the US Marines in order to pay for college. Even coming from a background that should have led my family to use welfare (mom was too proud and cleaned houses instead) I tend to lean more towards the idea that welfare and the nanny state in general hurt more than they help. The CATO Institute does a lot…

Some may argue that the US military is a big provider of welfare, handing out "fictitious" jobs to almost anybody in a "socialist" way.

Military jobs are anything but fictitious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualt...

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