The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor • Hacker News Board

Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#11

Post by vdaniuk » Sun, Oct 25, 2015, 2:39 PM UTC

snickerdoodles wrote: post #7

err4nt wrote: post #4

I grew up in Canada and went to school with rural kids, military kids, and french kids. My family wasnt in poverty but we didnt have many of the nice things others had. Around grade 5 I began to notice how we never had money for a TV, but all the welfare kids I knew had TVs in their rooms. i noticed how I had to do chores, work, save, and help neighbours to afford to buy a game console and video games, and all my fri…

Yep - we have signs to not feed the animals, or they become dependent on us for food...

Comments like this are a reason I try to avoid any HN threads related to inequality/poverty...

Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#12

Post by dragontamer » Sun, Oct 25, 2015, 2:40 PM UTC

err4nt wrote: post #4

I grew up in Canada and went to school with rural kids, military kids, and french kids. My family wasnt in poverty but we didnt have many of the nice things others had. Around grade 5 I began to notice how we never had money for a TV, but all the welfare kids I knew had TVs in their rooms. i noticed how I had to do chores, work, save, and help neighbours to afford to buy a game console and video games, and all my fri…

> No matter how much assistance you provide, it cant be so much that it disincentivizes you from rejoining the work force without facing a 'penalty'.

That's the welfare cliff, and it can be solved while keeping the overall welfare system in place.

It just means that we need to wean off welfare between 20k/year and 40k/year, to encourage people to work at higher paying jobs instead of penalizing people who work at higher paying jobs.

Everyone knows it is a problem, but Congress is too "busy" investigating Benghazi for years rather than hammering out a law that solves the welfare cliff.

Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#13

Post by xacaxulu » Sun, Oct 25, 2015, 2:40 PM UTC

I was born into a single parent family in a trailer park. I worked my way out of that situation including serving in the US Marines in order to pay for college. Even coming from a background that should have led my family to use welfare (mom was too proud and cleaned houses instead) I tend to lean more towards the idea that welfare and the nanny state in general hurt more than they help. The CATO Institute does a lot of research into this.

http://www.cato.org/blog/how-welfare-state-traps-poor-depend...

Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#14

Post by michaelbuddy » Sun, Oct 25, 2015, 2:40 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #3

jostmey wrote: post #2

The cash assistance programs being cited were carried out in poor countries, from what I can tell. Maybe that works in a country where you never have enough. I'm not sure the results apply here to the United States. I could not disagree more with the title, based on my own observations. I mean, aren't most of the people in this country poor because of mental illness or addiction?

What? No. 15% of the population is at or below the poverty line. Very few of them have ment illness or addiction. Most are simply born into circumstances with little opportunity (urban or rural), and don't have the exceptional qualities needed to break out of those trajectories.

People who aren't exceptional work and save money all the time. Working jobs doesn't require exceptional people. Also do you know the 'poverty' line isn't exactly the line where you're happy or sad. Many people are there and afford all necessities.

Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#15

Post by AC__ » Sun, Oct 25, 2015, 2:42 PM UTC

err4nt wrote: post #4

I grew up in Canada and went to school with rural kids, military kids, and french kids. My family wasnt in poverty but we didnt have many of the nice things others had. Around grade 5 I began to notice how we never had money for a TV, but all the welfare kids I knew had TVs in their rooms. i noticed how I had to do chores, work, save, and help neighbours to afford to buy a game console and video games, and all my fri…

I guess since we can't all openly stereotype people based on race and religion any longer we'll have to make do with stereotyping the poor. I'd love for you to show me these iPod toting welfare recipients. I'm Canadian, and can assure you that welfare recipients are not living high-on-the-hog. Due to the extremely high cost of living in Canada they are, in fact, quite impoverished http://www.ccsd.ca/factsheets/fs_ncwpl01.htm Great to see another conservative view point buttressed with nothing more than anecdotes. Also, based on your account, by age 10 you and your friends were discussing your parents finances to the point you knew which families were receiving welfare? Seems far fetched.

Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#16

Post by tonomics » Sun, Oct 25, 2015, 2:45 PM UTC

>Many governments have economic advisers with degrees from the United States who share the same ideology

He's right, but the ideology is social democracy, not free market capitalism

Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#17

Post by JupiterMoon » Sun, Oct 25, 2015, 2:45 PM UTC

> The Cato Institute is a public policy research organization — a think tank – dedicated to the principles of individual liberty, limited government, free markets and peace.

So no agenda there then.

Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#18

Post by JupiterMoon » Sun, Oct 25, 2015, 2:46 PM UTC

merpnderp wrote: post #10

chongli wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, aren't most of the people in this country poor because of mental illness or addiction? No! They're poor because their parents were poor or because they grew up in a poor neighbourhood and lacked access to a proper education. This article highlights one egregious myth but far more pernicious is the one you just highlighted: that poverty is a personal or moral failing rather than a lack of opportunity. It's rea…

"lacked access to a proper education". How does that explain Washington DC with the highest levels of funding per child in the country? Every kid has access to a well funded school with well paid teachers. I think it's easier to defend the claim that the kids lacked guidance and support to take advantage of the education provided for them. In the US a single mom who homeschools, with only a high school education, wil…

Difficult to be involved if you both work 40+ hours a week doing physically demanding jobs.

Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#19

Post by tonomics » Sun, Oct 25, 2015, 2:46 PM UTC

JupiterMoon wrote: post #17

> The Cato Institute is a public policy research organization — a think tank – dedicated to the principles of individual liberty, limited government, free markets and peace. So no agenda there then.

Same could be said about NY Times

Re: The Myth of Welfare’s Corrupting Influence on the Poor

#20

Post by dublinclontarf » Sun, Oct 25, 2015, 2:48 PM UTC

JupiterMoon wrote: post #17

> The Cato Institute is a public policy research organization — a think tank – dedicated to the principles of individual liberty, limited government, free markets and peace. So no agenda there then.

As opposd to the publishers of THIS report?