Can You Get Smarter? • Hacker News Board

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#71

Post by pen2l » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 9:01 PM UTC

curiouslurker wrote: post #67

kator wrote: post #13

My dad went from being an auto mechanic to learning to code when he was 63 and he's 77 now and argues with me about Drupal vs Joomla over dinner. It's only one sample but I'm convinced him switching careers extended his neural plasticity considerably.

Btw, one of the most brilliant engineers/architects I met a Microsoft, now a distinguished engineer at Amazon, started his career as an auto mechanic (he attended trade school for this). He is also the principal architect of IBM's DB2. His name is James RH. See this: (Why Amazon Hired a Car Mechanic to Run Its Cloud) http://www.wired.com/2013/02/james-hamilton-amazon/

Wait, what.

Am I correct getting this impression that what's being said is that auto mechanic work is somehow not "brain work"? Because for solving a lot of car problems it takes brains. If you're good at troubleshooting car problems, you will actually probably be good at programming.

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#72

Post by nicklaf » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 9:07 PM UTC

I certainly agree with the author's concluding sentence: "Forget the smart drugs and supplements; put on your shorts and go exercise." When he set up the opposing viewpoint earlier in the article, it made me cringe:

"I know, exercise is work, so you undoubtedly want to know if there is a smart pill, like Adderall or Ritalin, that will do the trick."

What an awful idea.

The mathematical and geometrical genius H.S.M. Coxeter lived to age 96. He attributed his continuing mental agility through old age to never being "bored", and to doing 50 push-ups a day.

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#73

Post by tracker1 » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 9:10 PM UTC

weinzierl wrote: post #68

copperx wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference then, between a software developer, a mechanic, and a doctor? Only one of them has a white collar job.

Serious question: Is a doctor really considered a blue collar worker?

I think gp was refering to doctors being the white-collar of the three... and even with engineers they are not blue collar, mot legally at least... Exempt from overtime pay (salaried), no time and a half for OT hourly, etc. IT work is definitely white collar legally speaking.. even if considered at blue-collar by management types.

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#74

Post by tracker1 » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 9:14 PM UTC

goodJobWalrus wrote: post #54

chdir wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> learning to code when he was 63 > switching careers extended his neural plasticity considerably I find this very interesting & uplifting. Would you be comfortable sharing more on what motivated him to switch careers at that age and your general observations throughout the process. I'm perhaps your age but I've experienced switching careers significantly is like hitting F5 in your life, or like a complete system re-…

"Switching careers" also implies that he found a job as a programmer. I imagine it's really difficult to convince someone to employ someone who is 60+ and just learned to code.

It depends, I've known of people to "break in" by offering to work the first week or two free, then negotiate. Generally you aren't going to work for a fortune 500 company as your first real job... but there's plenty of businesses that need someone to get work done, and can't afford market rates...

Beyond that, the self-starter is often a safer bet than a fresh college grad.

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#75

Post by lsc » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 9:17 PM UTC

nicklaf wrote: post #72

I certainly agree with the author's concluding sentence: "Forget the smart drugs and supplements; put on your shorts and go exercise." When he set up the opposing viewpoint earlier in the article, it made me cringe: "I know, exercise is work, so you undoubtedly want to know if there is a smart pill, like Adderall or Ritalin, that will do the trick." What an awful idea. The mathematical and geometrical genius H.S.M. C…

Why is a pill that makes you more like what you want to be an awful idea?

I'm not making any statement about the effects of the drugs in question; if they don't work or have bad side effects, obviously, that's bad, but my point is that people seem to think that drugs, even when they work and have reasonable side effects are a somehow bad or shameful route to self-improvement, and I don't see why that is.

If we're talking about famous people, what about Erdos?

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#76

Post by vlehto » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 9:19 PM UTC

DarkTree wrote: post #7

mamon wrote: post #6

"six weeks of brain training, with 10-minute sessions three times each week" - this seems so insignificant amount of practice that no reasonable person would expect it to have any effect. More interesting thing would be measure person's IQ before and after doing their quantum physics PhD studies - few years of intense work should do the trick of making you smarter.

This isn't even enough time to significantly increase your strength at a gym, which we know is possible and observable. Why anyone would think this is enough training to produce noticeable effects baffles me.

"six weeks of brain training, with 10-minute sessions three times each week"

Average couch potato could do miracles to his/her oxygen uptake with that amount of hard aerobic training. Ten minutes running uphill at full speed, stop when you're out of breath. Catch breath, do again. If you started with coopers test result of 1500m, you could probably hit 2500m at the end of the training.

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#77

Post by tracker1 » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 9:24 PM UTC

jghn wrote: post #48

marincounty wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying you do, but I have found the general public vastly underestimates the intelligence of many auto mechanics--especially today's mechanics. I guess they have always been an easy target in movies, etc.? I have a feeling your dad could learn anything if given the right structure. Mechanics are underpaid, expected to continually learn on their time, provide $20,000-30,000 grand worth of tools; and the owner…

This will be unpopular here but the flipside of that is I think folks overestimate how mentally taxing "learn to code" really is. The large majority of programming tasks are pretty rote at this point, it's just all hidden behind a veneer of arcane wizardry.

Learning to code really comes down to understanding algorithms (logic flows, and decision trees), a little bit of math, and the syntax in question. That's all you need to get something done for the most part.

Getting good/great at programming means understanding more and abstract concepts in addition to features of the environment you are working in.

Most programming tasks, once an initial project is started/templated out, can be done by someone that is effective, while not being a "great" programmer. It's a trade off.

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#78

Post by vacri » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 9:24 PM UTC

DiabloD3 wrote: post #4

monort wrote: post #3

This is more dreadful, than ageism. From linked paper: For example, longitudinal studies have reported between 1% and 2% annual hippocampal atrophy in adults older than 55 years without dementia (e.g., Jack and others 1998). Other regions also atrophy in late adulthood, including the prefrontal cortex, caudate nucleus, and cerebellum, at estimated rates between 0.5% and 2% per year. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar…

That is terrifying. I'm 32. That means in slightly over 20 years I am going to slowly become brain dead. By the time they cure death in my 70s, I will be too old to enjoy it unless they also can reverse this.

My mother is 70, and she runs her own website, mentors people online, hosts all kinds of guests at home, maintains a food garden, writes on sunny days in a gazebo she had built for her, cycles through creating small side businesses, pirates movies, goes on long strolls around her village...

I must remember to ask her if she's too old to enjoy life.

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#79

Post by xiaoma » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 9:26 PM UTC

goodJobWalrus wrote: post #54

chdir wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> learning to code when he was 63 > switching careers extended his neural plasticity considerably I find this very interesting & uplifting. Would you be comfortable sharing more on what motivated him to switch careers at that age and your general observations throughout the process. I'm perhaps your age but I've experienced switching careers significantly is like hitting F5 in your life, or like a complete system re-…

"Switching careers" also implies that he found a job as a programmer. I imagine it's really difficult to convince someone to employ someone who is 60+ and just learned to code.

There's a lot of prejudice along this axis and it's mostly acceptable in SV. Fortunately it's not universal!

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#80

Post by nicklaf » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 9:31 PM UTC

lsc wrote: post #75

nicklaf wrote: post #72

I certainly agree with the author's concluding sentence: "Forget the smart drugs and supplements; put on your shorts and go exercise." When he set up the opposing viewpoint earlier in the article, it made me cringe: "I know, exercise is work, so you undoubtedly want to know if there is a smart pill, like Adderall or Ritalin, that will do the trick." What an awful idea. The mathematical and geometrical genius H.S.M. C…

Why is a pill that makes you more like what you want to be an awful idea? I'm not making any statement about the effects of the drugs in question; if they don't work or have bad side effects, obviously, that's bad, but my point is that people seem to think that drugs, even when they work and have reasonable side effects are a somehow bad or shameful route to self-improvement, and I don't see why that is. If we're tal…

Sorry, I should be more precise. I don't think the pill itself is an "awful idea". What is a bad idea (IMO) is relying on a pill specifically because you don't want to exercise, which has been shown to work, and has too many interrelated benefits to mention.

I think stimulants are fine--Erdős took amphetamines, lots of kids take Adderall, and most mathematicians probably drink tea of coffee.