Google CEO Sundar Pichai Brings in Less Egotistical Leadership • Hacker News Board

Re: Google CEO Sundar Pichai Brings in Less Egotistical Leadership

#61

Post by _nedR » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 4:36 PM UTC

d_welsman wrote: post #2

Ego is essential to breaking through those tough barriers and new opportunities. Disregard for risk. Is this really what is needed when Google is being criticized for falling behind its competitors in innovation.

I wouldn't conflate lack of ego with lack of drive or ambition or an averseness to risk. Especially for someone who went from a lower middle class family in one of the poorest states in India to becoming the CEO of Google.

When a group of very smart people get together, there is a tendency for them to try to show themselves as being the smartest. This can lead to less-desirable situations where people don't share or cooperate as freely as they should. In the worst cases the situation could become antagonistic with individuals or entire teams and departments refusing to talk to each other. Now in a group of smart people, walks in a person like Sundar Pichai, someone without ego, who always defers to the other person, who might put himself/herself down to make the other person feel better. When two people in the group get into a conflict on an issue (remember this is a group that can get into religious wars over which brace style to use), it will be that person who mediates and gets the team going again. When the team has to vote on a new leader, that person is likely to get the most votes because he/she is the person everyone has the least issues with. Such a person who avoids conflict is able to act as transcendental force. People are more willing to listen to such a person or do what he/she says because they don't feel threatened by him/her.

Someone like Steve Jobs who always puts himself above everyone else, could also act as a transcendental force as long as people agree to that. But if someone like Steve Jobs was to start at the bottom of the organisation, and moves up the ladder to its top position, it would be by putting other people and teams down. These people might harbour a grudge or ill-will and be less likely to do what the new boss says. It is not a strategy without its downsides (For example why did someone as incredibly gifted as Steve Wozniak end up leaving Apple?).

By promoting similar people to leadership positions, Pichai is creating a environment where people with great talent but less taste for politics can also get their voice heard. I think such an environment is good for creativity to flourish.

"A good leader takes a little more than his share of the blame, a little less than his share of the credit."

Re: Google CEO Sundar Pichai Brings in Less Egotistical Leadership

#62

Post by yummyfajitas » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 4:45 PM UTC

tobtoh wrote: post #48

simula67 wrote: post #26

"Page was known as a tough manager inside the search giant, peppering his team with pointed questions and cutting (though usually accurate) observations. “He could come off as very harsh,” said one person who has had many encounters with Page over the years. “Until you realize it was more that he was completely lacking in EQ. I mean, zero.”" How is asking pointed questions and making cutting observations equate to be…

If you are a manager, your job is to get your team to produce the right outcome - the right outcome being not just a good product but a good sustainable team. If your team feel insulted/humiliated/upset, they are less likely to produce the right outcome in the short or long term. Any decent manager can ask the right questions and make accurate observations whilst still making their team feel positive and valued.

For some people, it's the content rather than the presentation which makes them feel insulted/humiliated/upset. The only way to prevent the negative feelings is to fail to communicate the "your work sucks" or "your idea won't work" message.

Blaming their feelings on the manager, rather than their own egos, is wrong and harmful.

Re: Google CEO Sundar Pichai Brings in Less Egotistical Leadership

#63

Post by jonnathanson » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 4:46 PM UTC

simula67 wrote: post #26

"Page was known as a tough manager inside the search giant, peppering his team with pointed questions and cutting (though usually accurate) observations. “He could come off as very harsh,” said one person who has had many encounters with Page over the years. “Until you realize it was more that he was completely lacking in EQ. I mean, zero.”" How is asking pointed questions and making cutting observations equate to be…

Have you ever busted your ass on a project and been reasonably proud of the outcome, only to be publicly excoriated and treated like an idiot when your boss points out some holes in your thinking, and focuses almost exclusively on those? Yes, the holes needed to be pointed out. But the manner in which they were pointed out probably left you feeling like shit. Especially if this happened with any appreciable frequency or regularity.

Some people will power through that sort of criticism. Some people will thrive under it. And quite a few people, including very smart and hardworking people, will be gradually demoralized by it.

As a manager, to whatever extent you are gradually demoralizing your team, you are creating inefficiencies. You are creating burnout problems, which may become turnover problems. You also risk inadvertently creating a yes-man culture, in which your opinions are deemed unassailable, and/or everyone just wants to avoid public conflict with you, and thus pleasing you becomes people's primary intellectual objective.

I've never worked for Larry Page, have no firsthand experience with his management style, and don't mean this as a commentary about him. But I have worked for people who fit this description, and while it didn't bother me too much, it sure bothered a lot of great people to an unnecessary degree.

How you give feedback matters almost as much as the accuracy or insight of your feedback.

Re: Google CEO Sundar Pichai Brings in Less Egotistical Leadership

#64

Post by gaius » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 5:03 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #62

tobtoh wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a manager, your job is to get your team to produce the right outcome - the right outcome being not just a good product but a good sustainable team. If your team feel insulted/humiliated/upset, they are less likely to produce the right outcome in the short or long term. Any decent manager can ask the right questions and make accurate observations whilst still making their team feel positive and valued.

For some people, it's the content rather than the presentation which makes them feel insulted/humiliated/upset. The only way to prevent the negative feelings is to fail to communicate the "your work sucks" or "your idea won't work" message. Blaming their feelings on the manager, rather than their own egos, is wrong and harmful.

Praise in public, criticize in private. Rule 1 of management.

Also, give credit to your team, take blame yourself. That's s rule 2. Any industry, any job, these rules hold, and anyone who doesn't follow them is dysfunctional.

Re: Google CEO Sundar Pichai Brings in Less Egotistical Leadership

#65

Post by jonas21 » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 5:10 PM UTC

hueving wrote: post #44

rajeevk wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometime, Google employees also show this kind of attitude in their social life which makes other people hard to just have social interaction with Google employees.

Yes, one of the most annoying things you can encounter is a conversation at dinner with multiple Google employees. They will constantly mention that Google is working on something and then after confirmation with each other that it is still private, refuse to tell anymore details. It seems like it's encouraged in Google culture to brag but in a secretive manner to remind outsiders of what they are missing.

... or maybe they're really excited about whatever it is and want to talk about it, but also don't want to get fired for leaking something?

Re: Google CEO Sundar Pichai Brings in Less Egotistical Leadership

#66

Post by tentosay » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 5:16 PM UTC

hueving wrote: post #43

tentosay wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Googler for close to a year, so take this with a grain of salt.. I had heard of this exact reputation before I joined and frankly it was one of the things that worried me most. After I joined, I kept waiting for the hammer to fall, to see the competitive mean streak in people and in my team at least, it was exactly the opposite. It's frankly the best environment I've worked in because they are genuinely caring people…

But are the people you interact with the ones in the big public positions the grandparent is referring to? (e.g. Open source projects like Kubernetes)

I actually interact with teams that bring a lot more revenue and is more highly visible to the public. And, again, I may be lucky here, but all the way up to my SVP are nice. I may have been lucky, but I think it's more an issue with people generalizing some issues. I'm not going to generalize my experience either, but I had to offer a different perspective.

Honestly, think about how many companies let their nerdiest of engineers be the public face of projects. The reputation is easy to come by when your front is not a "people person".

Re: Google CEO Sundar Pichai Brings in Less Egotistical Leadership

#67

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 5:22 PM UTC

tentosay wrote: post #40

justthistime_ wrote: post #11

Hopefully this will also happen at lower levels. The "I'm the smartest person in the world, because I work at Google" attitude is a reason I don't interact with/communicate with/contribute to Google-related projects. Their hugely inflated egos are just off-putting.

Googler for close to a year, so take this with a grain of salt.. I had heard of this exact reputation before I joined and frankly it was one of the things that worried me most. After I joined, I kept waiting for the hammer to fall, to see the competitive mean streak in people and in my team at least, it was exactly the opposite. It's frankly the best environment I've worked in because they are genuinely caring people…

[deleted]

Re: Google CEO Sundar Pichai Brings in Less Egotistical Leadership

#68

Post by yummyfajitas » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 5:23 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #64

yummyfajitas wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some people, it's the content rather than the presentation which makes them feel insulted/humiliated/upset. The only way to prevent the negative feelings is to fail to communicate the "your work sucks" or "your idea won't work" message. Blaming their feelings on the manager, rather than their own egos, is wrong and harmful.

Praise in public, criticize in private. Rule 1 of management. Also, give credit to your team, take blame yourself. That's s rule 2. Any industry, any job, these rules hold, and anyone who doesn't follow them is dysfunctional.

Some people still don't want to hear that their idea sucks, even in private.

I don't get why people are so attracted to this idea that the manager is the only party with any agency or ability to influence outcomes, while underlings are merely mechanical cogs to be properly organized by appropriate managerial incantations and social engineering.

As an underling it's great to be responsible for nothing negative, but this also means you don't really deserve much credit for the positives. Managers might throw false praise your way to manipulate you - as per your suggestion - but who cares about that?

Re: Google CEO Sundar Pichai Brings in Less Egotistical Leadership

#69

Post by yourapostasy » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 5:26 PM UTC

wstrange wrote: post #56

hueving wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But are the people you interact with the ones in the big public positions the grandparent is referring to? (e.g. Open source projects like Kubernetes)

My experience with the Kubernetes engineers has been awesome . They are incredibly helpful, and very tolerant of newbies like me who sometimes ask dumb questions...

There are never dumb questions, only practical and valuable examples of areas for improvement in documentation and/or related collateral (tutorials, cheat sheets, FAQs, etc.).

Re: Google CEO Sundar Pichai Brings in Less Egotistical Leadership

#70

Post by zimbatm » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 5:30 PM UTC

simula67 wrote: post #26

"Page was known as a tough manager inside the search giant, peppering his team with pointed questions and cutting (though usually accurate) observations. “He could come off as very harsh,” said one person who has had many encounters with Page over the years. “Until you realize it was more that he was completely lacking in EQ. I mean, zero.”" How is asking pointed questions and making cutting observations equate to be…

Getting to show how smart you are is different that working together with a team on building great products. Everyone has flaws, why not let the other person save face and point them in the right direction instead ? Assuming you hired motivated and smart people, I find that most of the time bad decisions are due to a lack of context more than anything else. If you get to share that information they probably are going to come to the same conclusion as you are. They get to learn something and you get better employees.