Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking • Hacker News Board

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#101

Post by adimitrov » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 7:53 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #88

adimitrov wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is known as an attachment ambiguity. The classical sentence is "The man saw the woman with the telescope." I'm afraid it is not limited to English, and a very common phenomenon across many languages that use prepositional phrases. Languages that do avoid these usually have a complicated case system. Even there, we have other ambiguity-types that are also common in English, such as relative clauses, quantifiers,…

My favorite standard example sentence (of ambiguity, that is) is "we saw her duck".

That's an example of lexical ambiguity. You can have a lot of fun with lexical ambiguity, especially with polysemous words, e.g. "John and his driver's license expired last week." (This particular kind is an example of a zeugma.)

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#102

Post by nsgi » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 9:38 AM UTC

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #79

nsgi wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Heimlich manoeuvre worked on none of them, because they died. It might have been possible to prevent some of those deaths with wider or more effective provision, but that would also have costs.

Just because they died doesn't mean someone: 1) Did the Heimlich manoeuvre 2) Performed it properly 3) Continued proper behaviour after the Heimlich manoeuvre failed There is a good chance the people who died were alone, that everyone around them panicked and froze up, or that nobody realized the person was in danger (people who choke are actually more likely to leave the room than try to tell someone). People often…

My point is that I don't think that's a problem that can be solved with a few posters. It doesn't matter if the deaths could have technically been prevented with the Heimlich manoeuvre unless there's a cheap and practical way to get people to perform it properly.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#103

Post by mhb » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 1:39 PM UTC

nsgi wrote: post #102

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because they died doesn't mean someone: 1) Did the Heimlich manoeuvre 2) Performed it properly 3) Continued proper behaviour after the Heimlich manoeuvre failed There is a good chance the people who died were alone, that everyone around them panicked and froze up, or that nobody realized the person was in danger (people who choke are actually more likely to leave the room than try to tell someone). People often…

My point is that I don't think that's a problem that can be solved with a few posters. It doesn't matter if the deaths could have technically been prevented with the Heimlich manoeuvre unless there's a cheap and practical way to get people to perform it properly.

So you think a problem that can't be solved with a picture of someone helping someone choking by grabbing them from behind and squeezing can be solved by having them find this gadget and figuring out how to use it? Curious.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#104

Post by mhb » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 1:42 PM UTC

paulmd wrote: post #94

mhb wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the cost/benefit of those?

If you're the guy on the ground in cardiac arrest? Priceless. Just checked Amazon - you can buy an AED for $959 minus $100 coupon. The recommended lifespan of an AED is 5-8 years, so for a smalltime operator you're looking at an amortized cost of $107-175 per year. $10 per month is a rounding error in the operating budget of a public accomodation, and I don't see how you can possibly get upset about that. Let alone s…

Surely you understand that this reasoning must break down for some cost of AED. Presumably you have them in your home and office. Yes?

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#105

Post by mhb » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 1:49 PM UTC

vacri wrote: post #98

mhb wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your source for #2? The NHS (i.e., not the US) doesn't mention that technique. http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/2301.aspx?categoryid=72

St John's Ambulance does first aid training here in Melbourne. They're basically a volunteer group who work alongside the professional paramedics; St John's generally does events like concerts and festivals, while the professionals do the usual emergency stuff. St John's also do a lot of first aid training here (the above examples come from a course of theirs). The side chest compressions tend not to break ribs - nor…

That all seems reasonable. It's just that your post is the first place I've ever heard of this technique of pushing on a choking person's side. Since it came packaged with snark about the US Heimlich PR I expected to find a lot more information and advocacy for it. Meanwhile the best you can do is provide a link to using normal chest compressions - not applying side compressions as you mentioned.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#106

Post by TomStephenson » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 3:15 PM UTC

claar wrote: post #9

A comment on the article mentions a competitor at http://lifevac.net : "There is another version of this type of device that has been around (FDA approved) for a couple of years now. It's called LifeVac and it has been adopted by several fire departments, schools, skilled nursing facilities and families all across the eastern seaboard as well Europe and Canada. Only costs $69.95 and even that number can come down wit…

This lifevac is a total joke! No way the tongue and cheeks don't get in the way. So, really we are supposed to plunge down on someone's head and hope a toilet plunger works. Is that legit, seriously

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#107

Post by chrisfosterelli » Sat, Oct 24, 2015, 5:16 PM UTC

nsgi wrote: post #102

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because they died doesn't mean someone: 1) Did the Heimlich manoeuvre 2) Performed it properly 3) Continued proper behaviour after the Heimlich manoeuvre failed There is a good chance the people who died were alone, that everyone around them panicked and froze up, or that nobody realized the person was in danger (people who choke are actually more likely to leave the room than try to tell someone). People often…

My point is that I don't think that's a problem that can be solved with a few posters. It doesn't matter if the deaths could have technically been prevented with the Heimlich manoeuvre unless there's a cheap and practical way to get people to perform it properly.

I agree that I doubt posters would help. People need proper first aid training.

That said, the same logic applies to this device.