Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Germany Does Prison

themarshallproject.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 42 posts

Re: How Germany Does Prison

#11

Post by jules »

lordnacho wrote: post #7

Anecdotes from a Scandinavian country: - When I was a kid someone "borrowed" a bulldozer and made a huge hole in the wall at a prison. A few guys escaped. But most of the rest didn't. They were having some sort of family day and didn't think it made sense to bolt. - I was taught how to swim by a convict on release. He had a police officer with him each time, but she kept in the background. He was doing time for a vio…

I think the question to ask people who favor punishment prisons is this: prisoners get out of prison one day. If a prisoner was moving in the house next to yours as your neighbor, would you rather have a prisoner from a prison focused on humane treatment or from a prison focused on punishment?

Re: How Germany Does Prison

#12

Post by alessioalex »

jules wrote: post #11
lordnacho wrote: post #7

Anecdotes from a Scandinavian country: - When I was a kid someone "borrowed" a bulldozer and made a huge hole in the wall at a prison. A few guys escaped. But most of the rest didn't. They were having some sort of family day and didn't think it made sense to bolt. - I was taught how to swim by a convict on release. He had a police officer with him each time, but she kept in the background. He was doing time for a vio…

I think the question to ask people who favor punishment prisons is this: prisoners get out of prison one day. If a prisoner was moving in the house next to yours as your neighbor, would you rather have a prisoner from a prison focused on humane treatment or from a prison focused on punishment?

Spot on question, bravo!

Re: How Germany Does Prison

#13

Post by mhd »

As far as I know, there are no truly federal prisons in Germany, so depending on whether you're in Mecklenburg-Pomerania or Bavaria, things might vary quite a bit (although stringent federal laws do apply).

Re: How Germany Does Prison

#14

Post by pjc50 »

jules wrote: post #11
lordnacho wrote: post #7

Anecdotes from a Scandinavian country: - When I was a kid someone "borrowed" a bulldozer and made a huge hole in the wall at a prison. A few guys escaped. But most of the rest didn't. They were having some sort of family day and didn't think it made sense to bolt. - I was taught how to swim by a convict on release. He had a police officer with him each time, but she kept in the background. He was doing time for a vio…

I think the question to ask people who favor punishment prisons is this: prisoners get out of prison one day. If a prisoner was moving in the house next to yours as your neighbor, would you rather have a prisoner from a prison focused on humane treatment or from a prison focused on punishment?

prisoners get out of prison one day

Unfortunately the people who favour punishment prisons are likely to counter by saying that people should never get out of prison; or, if they do, they should be banned from living next to ''decent'' people (this is the effect of things like offender registry laws).

Re: How Germany Does Prison

#15

Post by tormeh »

mschuster91 wrote: post #8

We Germans have our own issues though, it's not perfect. What is the prison system in the US, is the psychiatric system here. Once you get in its wheels, it takes really dedicated lawyers and sometimes even mass-media attention to get out. Just look at Gustl Mollath. And our "justice" system suffers from massive, massive understaffing, just like the police. It's easy to "cut costs" there for politicians because there…

I've never seen more police than in Berlin. In Norway I can go for months without seeing police. In Berlin they were everywhere with guns and body armor. So, yeah, not underfunded at all, as far as I can see.

Re: How Germany Does Prison

#16

Post by FlorianOver »

tormeh wrote: post #15
mschuster91 wrote: post #8

We Germans have our own issues though, it's not perfect. What is the prison system in the US, is the psychiatric system here. Once you get in its wheels, it takes really dedicated lawyers and sometimes even mass-media attention to get out. Just look at Gustl Mollath. And our "justice" system suffers from massive, massive understaffing, just like the police. It's easy to "cut costs" there for politicians because there…

I've never seen more police than in Berlin. In Norway I can go for months without seeing police. In Berlin they were everywhere with guns and body armor. So, yeah, not underfunded at all, as far as I can see.

Berlin is a special case. You can stay weeks in cologne without seeing one police woman/man.

Re: How Germany Does Prison

#17

Post by germanier »

mhd wrote: post #13

As far as I know, there are no truly federal prisons in Germany, so depending on whether you're in Mecklenburg-Pomerania or Bavaria, things might vary quite a bit (although stringent federal laws do apply).

Up until 2006 prisons were completely regulated federally, even though they were run by the states. Since then, the states are in charge of prison laws, though they don't vary much.

Just as an example for one of they "major" differences: Most states still require TVs in common rooms but as many inmates have their own nowadays, some states made them optional. In Hamburg there is never a TV in a common room. Some states may require the inmates to pay for the electricity they use with their own appliances.

Most other differences are also on that level.

Re: How Germany Does Prison

#18

Post by jules »

pjc50 wrote: post #14
jules wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the question to ask people who favor punishment prisons is this: prisoners get out of prison one day. If a prisoner was moving in the house next to yours as your neighbor, would you rather have a prisoner from a prison focused on humane treatment or from a prison focused on punishment?

prisoners get out of prison one day Unfortunately the people who favour punishment prisons are likely to counter by saying that people should never get out of prison; or, if they do, they should be banned from living next to ''decent'' people (this is the effect of things like offender registry laws).

Even those people don't think you should get a life sentence for every crime. If a prisoner gets out of prison they are going to live somewhere, so somebody is going to be their neighbor. Even if they aren't your neighbor they still live in the same city. The only way around that is to make completely segregated cities for ex-prisoners with walls around them, but that's effectively a giant prison with life sentences for everyone.

The most important thing is to engage the rational side of the brain and focus on outcomes instead of the emotional side of the brain and focus on revenge. Recidivism is much lower in humane prisons (something like ~20% vs ~70%).

Re: How Germany Does Prison

#19

Post by aianus »

jules wrote: post #11
lordnacho wrote: post #7

Anecdotes from a Scandinavian country: - When I was a kid someone "borrowed" a bulldozer and made a huge hole in the wall at a prison. A few guys escaped. But most of the rest didn't. They were having some sort of family day and didn't think it made sense to bolt. - I was taught how to swim by a convict on release. He had a police officer with him each time, but she kept in the background. He was doing time for a vio…

I think the question to ask people who favor punishment prisons is this: prisoners get out of prison one day. If a prisoner was moving in the house next to yours as your neighbor, would you rather have a prisoner from a prison focused on humane treatment or from a prison focused on punishment?

The people who favor punishment prisons live in communities unaffordable to convicts and have likely never met one or ever expected to meet one.

Re: How Germany Does Prison

#20

Post by DasIch »

tormeh wrote: post #15
mschuster91 wrote: post #8

We Germans have our own issues though, it's not perfect. What is the prison system in the US, is the psychiatric system here. Once you get in its wheels, it takes really dedicated lawyers and sometimes even mass-media attention to get out. Just look at Gustl Mollath. And our "justice" system suffers from massive, massive understaffing, just like the police. It's easy to "cut costs" there for politicians because there…

I've never seen more police than in Berlin. In Norway I can go for months without seeing police. In Berlin they were everywhere with guns and body armor. So, yeah, not underfunded at all, as far as I can see.

Berlin is a special case because there are a lot of places that require protection such as government buildings, embassies and synagogues. There is also a protest somewhere in Berlin on almost any given day. On top of that there is the criminal activity, drugs mostly, which means that the police raid places like Görlitzer Park pretty much daily.

In the rest of Germany there are cities you can easily spend months in without encountering a police officer.

Post reply on HN