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The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

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Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#71

Post by harryh »

smt88 wrote: post #60
harryh wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it mean to be from Hawaii vs. Mississippi? Kind of a lot?

I'm not saying states shouldn't be able to determine certain things. But the federal government should be able to overrule asinine state policies after public debate (still subject to testing in court). When that testing happens, as it does now, the determining factor shouldn't be "states vs federal rights". It should be, "Does this state have a good reason to differ from the rest of the country?" In this case, where…

Maybe in a poorer state like Mississippi the revenue state raised by more expensive phone calls is needed to properly pay for the prisons in question?

I'm not saying I believe that argument, but I don't live in Mississippi, I don't pay taxes in Mississippi, and I'm extremely unlikely to ever end up in a Mississippi prison. Maybe it should be the job of Mississippians to weigh the pros and cons of these things?

Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#72

Post by discardorama »

Someone1234 wrote: post #6

I don't understand why the Republicans voted against. Look, I get it, you support private industry. But let's remember context, you support capitalism where COMPETITION exists, in this situation it is an artificially created monopoly of one company. Now if they had an alternative proposal that required prisons to have two or more vendors, I'd be totally onboard with not setting an artificial price restriction. Since…

> I don't understand why the Republicans voted against.

> Look, I get it, you support private industry. But let's remember context, you support capitalism where COMPETITION exists, in this situation it is an artificially created monopoly of one company.

I hate to say this, but: most Republicans are not pro-competition. They're very happy helping the government put in place monopolies, and milking that monopoly status. Case in point: the Republicans refuse to the Medicaid negotiate lower drug prices. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/18/washington/18cnd-medicare....

Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#73

Post by linksbro »

nickff wrote: post #53
linksbro wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They voted against it because they believe it "exceed(s) the commission’s legal authority."[1] But they both said the idea had "well intentions." [2] Makes you wonder what horrors a conservative majority FCC will cause. [1] http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/22/regulators-sl... [2] Full commission meeting (item was first on agenda) https://www.fcc.gov/events/open-commission-meeting-october-2...

I agree with the conservative FCC comissioners; this is a matter which should be dealt with in contracts between the government (state or federal) and the prison operator. The FCC has recently been venturing into fields where it does not have expertise or (clear) authority. When the FCC issues regulations which should have been addressed by another regulator or actor, accountability is lost. Who is now to blame when…

I'm not sure how I understand how an independent commission created by congress to "make available so far as possible, to all the people of the United States, without discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, or sex, rapid, efficient, Nationwide, and world-wide wire and radio communication services with adequate facilities at reasonable charges"[1] is increasing the scope of their authority by very clearly making it possible for the incarcerated to access wire communications at a reasonable charge.

Can you elaborate on how you're seeing this as an overreach?

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Act_of_1934 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_Act_of_1996

Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#74

Post by anon432 »

revscat wrote: post #58

That may have been their stated objection, but the broader pattern belies this. The broader pattern is "make life as difficult for the poor, middle class, and the minorities as possible."

Or, they actually have a clearer grasp than you do of their legal authority and concluded, probably correctly, that the measure exceeded it and would likely be struck down by the courts as a result, just like what happened with their net neutrality regulation.

Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#75

Post by dragonwriter »

eli wrote: post #15
jMyles wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just odd on its face that so many of these decisions, which absolutely have an otherwise legislative character, are being made by the executive branch.

The FCC is an independent agency created by Congress, not part of the executive branch.

The FCC is an independent executive agency, and is part of the executive branch outside of the scope of the executive departments. It is, to be sure, created by Congress, but that's true of most of the executive branch, including the executive departments.

Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#76

Post by devit »

Someone1234 wrote: post #12
jMyles wrote: post #4

I know this is controversial, but the humane thing to do is to allow inmates unfettered access to the internet. Contrary to the orthodoxy on the matter, I assert that this will reduce the strength and relevance of 'prison gangs.'

Extremely controversial. Stopping prisoners from harassing their victims/witnesses against them/enemies or organising others to do their dirty work externally is already a massive problem. Prisons have the ability to listen to calls and read mail to try and curtail it. Giving them access to the internet makes all of this far easier, and monitoring it far more expensive. Not to mention that now they can use the intern…

Just give access to those that have committed crimes which imply a low risk of such behavior, and take away the access in case of misbehavior.

The vast majority of people aren't going to cause any issues.

Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#77

Post by anon432 »

nickff wrote: post #66
revscat wrote: post #58

That may have been their stated objection, but the broader pattern belies this. The broader pattern is "make life as difficult for the poor, middle class, and the minorities as possible."

Why must you accuse your intellectual opponents of being mean and evil? Why would they be so cruel and irrational? Do you have any real reason to believe you are any better than them?

Look into the research of Jonathan Haidt.

Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#78

Post by mc32 »

Someone1234 wrote: post #6

I don't understand why the Republicans voted against. Look, I get it, you support private industry. But let's remember context, you support capitalism where COMPETITION exists, in this situation it is an artificially created monopoly of one company. Now if they had an alternative proposal that required prisons to have two or more vendors, I'd be totally onboard with not setting an artificial price restriction. Since…

They will likely claim "principles" but sometimes you need to do what is pragmatic and right and forget principles from time to time.

Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#79

Post by toomuchtodo »

harryh wrote: post #71
smt88 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying states shouldn't be able to determine certain things. But the federal government should be able to overrule asinine state policies after public debate (still subject to testing in court). When that testing happens, as it does now, the determining factor shouldn't be "states vs federal rights". It should be, "Does this state have a good reason to differ from the rest of the country?" In this case, where…

Maybe in a poorer state like Mississippi the revenue state raised by more expensive phone calls is needed to properly pay for the prisons in question? I'm not saying I believe that argument, but I don't live in Mississippi, I don't pay taxes in Mississippi, and I'm extremely unlikely to ever end up in a Mississippi prison. Maybe it should be the job of Mississippians to weigh the pros and cons of these things?

If you can't pay for your prisons without extorting the families of convicts, stop locking people up.

Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#80

Post by smt88 »

unethical_ban wrote: post #62
smt88 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone else said, the FCC isn't created or controlled by the executive branch. Many decisions with a "legislative character" are, however, made by the executive branch through executive agencies (Dept of Agriculture, Dept of Homeland Security, etc.) These agencies only exist with the blessing of Congress, though, so they technically derive their power from the legislative branch. If that sounds weird, it is. The…

It's frustrating how much Congress has ceded to these agencies. it's a loophole in democracy.

To me, it's a mixed bag.

For example, the EPA is working (though not enough) to prevent the end of human life on earth. That's something I wouldn't trust Congress to do, since they seem to be gridlocked forever on all common sense issues.

But then there are agencies like the USDA, which fed "pink slime" to children for years in order to help out the cattle industry[1].

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_slime

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