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The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

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Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#61

Post by jacquesm »

smtddr wrote: post #57
_delirium wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in Europe there are quite a few varieties. Some European liberals are more along the lines of American libertarians, but most are considerably more open to some degree of social safety net, and would be positioned to the left of more of a Reagan/Thatcher approach. Especially some kind of welfare system, universal public education, and universal provision of healthcare are common viewpoints. Some of this is the i…

These kinds of HN threads have completely ruined me on ever using the term "liberal" in any context. It doesn't reliably scale to broadcast a consistent concept to a sizable group of people.

That goes for most labels used in some context. Left-wing, right wing, liberal, conservative, democracy, freedom, prosperity and so on. All those mean different things to different people.

Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#62

Post by unethical_ban »

smt88 wrote: post #43
jMyles wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just odd on its face that so many of these decisions, which absolutely have an otherwise legislative character, are being made by the executive branch.

As someone else said, the FCC isn't created or controlled by the executive branch. Many decisions with a "legislative character" are, however, made by the executive branch through executive agencies (Dept of Agriculture, Dept of Homeland Security, etc.) These agencies only exist with the blessing of Congress, though, so they technically derive their power from the legislative branch. If that sounds weird, it is. The…

It's frustrating how much Congress has ceded to these agencies. it's a loophole in democracy.

Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#63

Post by smt88 »

SnowCrash2829 wrote: post #59
smt88 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do a lot more than just voice calls.

I thought they just do voice calls and mail pictures right now.

Basically, yeah: voice, photos by mail, text by mail, and then some kind of support group/social network for wives and girlfriends of prisoners[1]. What an unfortunate name for that service, though...

1. https://pigeon.ly/prisonwives

Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#64

Post by _delirium »

smtddr wrote: post #57
_delirium wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in Europe there are quite a few varieties. Some European liberals are more along the lines of American libertarians, but most are considerably more open to some degree of social safety net, and would be positioned to the left of more of a Reagan/Thatcher approach. Especially some kind of welfare system, universal public education, and universal provision of healthcare are common viewpoints. Some of this is the i…

These kinds of HN threads have completely ruined me on ever using the term "liberal" in any context. It doesn't reliably scale to broadcast a consistent concept to a sizable group of people.

In continental Europe it's somewhat clarified by dividing them into "liberal-conservatives", who politically side with conservative parties and may also be open to some elements of traditional conservatism (patriotism/nationalism, anti-immigration, etc.), and "social liberals", who tend to position themselves as politically centrist or center-left, support at least some kinds of social programs, and are typically hostile to traditional conservatism. Individuals may or may not fit cleanly into one of those categories, but the parties usually do.

Though that runs into another naming collision, because "social liberal" in the U.S. means a liberal who is focused mostly on social issues (gay marriage, abortion, free speech), rather than a liberal who is supportive of social programs.

Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#65

Post by [deleted] »

nickff wrote: post #53
linksbro wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They voted against it because they believe it "exceed(s) the commission’s legal authority."[1] But they both said the idea had "well intentions." [2] Makes you wonder what horrors a conservative majority FCC will cause. [1] http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/22/regulators-sl... [2] Full commission meeting (item was first on agenda) https://www.fcc.gov/events/open-commission-meeting-october-2...

I agree with the conservative FCC comissioners; this is a matter which should be dealt with in contracts between the government (state or federal) and the prison operator. The FCC has recently been venturing into fields where it does not have expertise or (clear) authority. When the FCC issues regulations which should have been addressed by another regulator or actor, accountability is lost. Who is now to blame when…

[deleted]

Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#66

Post by nickff »

revscat wrote: post #58

That may have been their stated objection, but the broader pattern belies this. The broader pattern is "make life as difficult for the poor, middle class, and the minorities as possible."

Why must you accuse your intellectual opponents of being mean and evil? Why would they be so cruel and irrational? Do you have any real reason to believe you are any better than them?

Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#67

Post by vijayr »

Someone1234 wrote: post #6

I don't understand why the Republicans voted against. Look, I get it, you support private industry. But let's remember context, you support capitalism where COMPETITION exists, in this situation it is an artificially created monopoly of one company. Now if they had an alternative proposal that required prisons to have two or more vendors, I'd be totally onboard with not setting an artificial price restriction. Since…

It is not just the prison. In some places, ankle bracelets are outsourced to private companies [1] and they charge the user rent for it and if they can't pay, guess where they go back?

[1] http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/09/23/1424181/-Pay-for-yo...

Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#68

Post by devit »

Why not $0?

The marginal cost of the bandwidth required to make the phone calls is negligible, so there is no reason it should cost anything to the inmates.

A simple solution to achieve such a result is to buy a cell phone plan with unlimited minutes and route calls through it.

Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#69

Post by taurath »

nickff wrote: post #53
linksbro wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They voted against it because they believe it "exceed(s) the commission’s legal authority."[1] But they both said the idea had "well intentions." [2] Makes you wonder what horrors a conservative majority FCC will cause. [1] http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/22/regulators-sl... [2] Full commission meeting (item was first on agenda) https://www.fcc.gov/events/open-commission-meeting-october-2...

I agree with the conservative FCC comissioners; this is a matter which should be dealt with in contracts between the government (state or federal) and the prison operator. The FCC has recently been venturing into fields where it does not have expertise or (clear) authority. When the FCC issues regulations which should have been addressed by another regulator or actor, accountability is lost. Who is now to blame when…

It will result in local and regional monopolies and unbreakable contracts as it has with ISPs. Time and time again local entities are bribed or bought - at least when its done on the federal level there's one location that needs to be fixed, and maybe they'll actually have the resources to do a researched decision instead of signing up the first person to walk through the door with a solution.

Re: The FCC has voted to end exorbitant phone fees for prison inmates

#70

Post by nickff »

taurath wrote: post #69
nickff wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the conservative FCC comissioners; this is a matter which should be dealt with in contracts between the government (state or federal) and the prison operator. The FCC has recently been venturing into fields where it does not have expertise or (clear) authority. When the FCC issues regulations which should have been addressed by another regulator or actor, accountability is lost. Who is now to blame when…

It will result in local and regional monopolies and unbreakable contracts as it has with ISPs. Time and time again local entities are bribed or bought - at least when its done on the federal level there's one location that needs to be fixed, and maybe they'll actually have the resources to do a researched decision instead of signing up the first person to walk through the door with a solution.

I remain convinced that this should be dealt with in the prison's contract with the government, as other issues such as sanitation, clothing, etc. are dealt with, as it would allow for clear and detailed standards (as well as accountability and continuous monitoring) and not just price setting; however, if the problem here is one of monopoly, the regulator with the clearest authority is the FTC.[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Trade_Commission

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