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Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

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Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#91

Post by emmelaich »

distrill wrote: post #48
emmelaich wrote: post #41

We've switched to using Kanban at work. I won't go into all of it, but one thing that has really helped is to have all the tasks in progress on a board where everyone can see them. And only have one task in express lane and two non-express items at any time. You haven't said whether the problem is too much work or competing priorities (or both). Whatever it is, this has helped me.

What were you using before the switch to Kanban? This is very interesting to me, the idea that just switching up techniques can have that much of an impact on how you feel at work.

I guess we were using nothing really. We had RequestTracker (for ops) and Jira for development and I found myself in the middle. At the start I was the sole sysadmin and did the small amount of developer support stuff as well. We've tripled in size over the last ten years. As we grew I was doing the jobs of product owner, business analyst, developer, devops, sysadmin without really being conscious of the change. The great temptation is to think that things won't work unless you're involved because you know it all.

Boiling frog syndrome in a way(1)

Not having to decide priorities is a massive relief; the product owners know they have to discuss priorities with each other and my team leader, not me.

(1) yeah I know it's not an accurate analogy.

Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#92

Post by giis »

yitchelle wrote: post #85
giis wrote: post #79

Disclaimer : I never had good relationship with any of my bosses in 10+ years, may be my fault or may be theirs. I cant change my attitude.(i'm not bootlicker and all my boss's expected that in my Indian environment/culture) There are quite lot of good comments on approaching boss and talking about your issue. I agree with them but let me ask: your boss doesn't know that you are overloaded ? Can't he see there are pe…

> I cant change my attitude. I hope that this is a typo because in a relationship, the only attitude that you have in your power to change is yours, not your boss.

Sorry,no its not a typo. Its not just about maintaining relationship, I don't like give my self-respect for the sake of being in their good books. (which can fetch me things like promotion/money/travel etc). Instead of 'i can't" it should have like 'I don't want to change my attitude'. I strongly believe there must be mutual respect between you and boss. It can't be one-way. Again, as I mentioned its more specific my work environment so far. I believe culture plays vital role once you reach boss position.

Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#93

Post by giis »

mrweasel wrote: post #88
giis wrote: post #79

Disclaimer : I never had good relationship with any of my bosses in 10+ years, may be my fault or may be theirs. I cant change my attitude.(i'm not bootlicker and all my boss's expected that in my Indian environment/culture) There are quite lot of good comments on approaching boss and talking about your issue. I agree with them but let me ask: your boss doesn't know that you are overloaded ? Can't he see there are pe…

>your boss doesn't know that you are overloaded ? He might not, people have different stress levels. I get stressed pretty easily, my boss, not so much. As for not wanting/be able to change your attitude: I don't think you should be expected to. There will be jobs you can't hold, but telling someone that their attitude needs adjusting is somewhat narrow-minded. I behave, act and react in certain ways. That's just who…

>He might not

then its good news, should definitely have a chat with him.

Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#94

Post by radarsat1 »

maratd wrote: post #64
radarsat1 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good story, and I'm glad your boss reacted well. But, it sort of bothers me how it's not considered acceptable in this world to take a sabbatical. Why are companies so against the idea of people taking a few months off in a row, especially if otherwise they would just quit?

You're employed because a specific amount of work needs to be done within a specified amount of time. If you're not going to do it, who will? The work might wait a week or two (vacation), but do you really think the clients will be OK waiting months (sabbatical)? The only industry where it's acceptable to just take off is within academia and that's mostly because most of the teaching is done by staff that would never…

> If you're not going to do it, who will?

And if you're hit by a bus, then what? The company goes under? People shouldn't exactly be replaceable, but they also shouldn't be carrying the entire company on their shoulders. No wonder they get burnt out.

Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#95

Post by Killswitch »

dikaiosune wrote: post #42
DrFunke wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon employee spotted.

Doesn't look like it (from blog linked in GP profile): https://www.joshmanders.com/on-startup-life

Missed the parent comment, what was it about? I forgot about this thread until I noticed my Google Analytics blow up from you linking this.

Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#96

Post by Spoom »

Killswitch wrote: post #95
dikaiosune wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't look like it (from blog linked in GP profile): https://www.joshmanders.com/on-startup-life

Missed the parent comment, what was it about? I forgot about this thread until I noticed my Google Analytics blow up from you linking this.

I'm not sure we're allowed to copy and paste dead comments, but you can turn on showdead in your user profile and see it yourself.

Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#97

Post by Killswitch »

Spoom wrote: post #96
Killswitch wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Missed the parent comment, what was it about? I forgot about this thread until I noticed my Google Analytics blow up from you linking this.

I'm not sure we're allowed to copy and paste dead comments, but you can turn on showdead in your user profile and see it yourself.

Ah, nice tip.

Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#98

Post by crikli »

johnward wrote: post #44
crikli wrote: post #38

I'm a boss of devs. My off the cuff response to you is "please, god _please_, talk to your boss." Say exactly what you told us. "I'm burnt out, I've tried addressing the problem..." Before you do, think through what's causing the burnout. It could be the hours, that's where everyone goes first, but it could be a particular client, it could be the number of projects you're having to concurrently work, it could be your…

Are managers like you common or are you some type of unicorn?

Nah. Most of the managers I worked with truly wanted to treat their people well, they just didn't have the latitude or power to do so. They were given lots of responsibility with no authority, they got dumped on by the jackwagon MBA(s) they reported to, and they didn't have the power to do anything but serve as a conduit between upper management and the field. It was/is a culture problem endemic to many big corporations (and lots of small ones too).

Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#99

Post by dllthomas »

CaptSpify wrote: post #29
burp3141 wrote: post #11

My manager and I had a 10 year relationship going. I had just transitioned to a new role, had a new born and taken on too much. I was feeling it for 6 months but finally broke at around 9 months. I told him I couldn't do it anymore and that I wanted a sabbatical. I told them that my backup plan was to just quit. He talked me off the ledge and within a day had transitioned my troublesome projects to others and moved m…

I would like to interject: This heavily depends on the boss. I've seen great bosses who will make stuff like this happen, and I've seen terrible bosses who don't give a shit. Make sure you work for the right-kind of boss if you are going to take this approach!

"Make sure you work for the right-kind of boss if you are going to take this approach!"

Also if you aren't going to take this approach (if you have the luxury).

Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#100

Post by maratd »

syntheticnature wrote: post #66
maratd wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're employed because a specific amount of work needs to be done within a specified amount of time. If you're not going to do it, who will? The work might wait a week or two (vacation), but do you really think the clients will be OK waiting months (sabbatical)? The only industry where it's acceptable to just take off is within academia and that's mostly because most of the teaching is done by staff that would never…

If you let them quit instead, will you be able to find anyone(s) who will handle that work, and how fast will they get up to speed? And if the person's burnt out, is their schedule packed already to the point where things like "documentation" and "refactoring" are "nice to haves" instead of necessities?

This isn't black and white. The options aren't sabbatical or disaster.

Time off is not a solution. The problem will simply resurface when the person comes back.

The solution is to re-organize the work. Hire an additional person, if needed. Add work that the employee will enjoy and that will be relaxing. That's a solution.

If the company isn't interested in solutions, then the solution for the employee is still not a sabbatical. The solution is to quit and find a company that isn't so myopic.

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