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Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

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Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#51
If it's getting worse, you haven't hit full burnout yet. You should stop right now unless you really want to suffer that, let this be a cautionary tale: http://jacquesmattheij.com/dealing-with-burn-out I would just give a 2 week notice out of the blue. I'd say I'd made plans for a year's 'sabbatical', and I would give that to the company as the primary excuse for leaving -- if you can work out a deal where they'll hire you back then great but don't hold your breath. If you don't have a year's expenses saved up then you should also think about moving to a less expensive area. You can always move back when (and if) you decide to get a job in the area again, which may be much less than a year but if at the end of the year you still feel aversion your next Ask HN should be on reentering the job market but wanting to transition out of a pure programming role into something else similarly well paid (but maybe not even in tech).

Edit: Downvoters may not think this response is justified, but full burnout is very serious. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnout_%28psychology%29 If you're still at the stage where a "break", even one so long as a year, can help you get your head back in the game, you need to take advantage of that now rather than later before you burn out completely and spend at least a year but maybe even a decade to build yourself back up to a passable shadow of your former self, productivity-in-the-field-wise. That you have been struggling to fight burnout for a year already while it's getting worse suggests you need a longer break and perhaps a big shift in day-to-day work rather than a simple week or two near a beach without internet.

Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#52
post #38

I'm a boss of devs. My off the cuff response to you is "please, god _please_, talk to your boss." Say exactly what you told us. "I'm burnt out, I've tried addressing the problem..." Before you do, think through what's causing the burnout. It could be the hours, that's where everyone goes first, but it could be a particular client, it could be the number of projects you're having to concurrently work, it could be your…

Are managers like you common or are you some type of unicorn?

More common than you think in my experience.

Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#53

We've switched to using Kanban at work. I won't go into all of it, but one thing that has really helped is to have all the tasks in progress on a board where everyone can see them. And only have one task in express lane and two non-express items at any time. You haven't said whether the problem is too much work or competing priorities (or both). Whatever it is, this has helped me.

What were you using before the switch to Kanban? This is very interesting to me, the idea that just switching up techniques can have that much of an impact on how you feel at work.

Kanban is more relaxed than scrum.

When the teams I worked with switched to kanban, they liked that they didn't have the end of scrum deadline, they also disliked that they didn't have the ten day deadline anymore as they felt the arbitrary deadline helped to push them a little.

That being said, kanban is better, it is more relaxed and feature feedback is faster than scrum.

Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#55

My manager and I had a 10 year relationship going. I had just transitioned to a new role, had a new born and taken on too much. I was feeling it for 6 months but finally broke at around 9 months. I told him I couldn't do it anymore and that I wanted a sabbatical. I told them that my backup plan was to just quit. He talked me off the ledge and within a day had transitioned my troublesome projects to others and moved m…

This is a good story, and I'm glad your boss reacted well. But, it sort of bothers me how it's not considered acceptable in this world to take a sabbatical. Why are companies so against the idea of people taking a few months off in a row, especially if otherwise they would just quit?

A sabbatical can be long (and is not "vacation time" or "sick leave") because by default it's unpaid.

So it's in the developer's interest as well for the manager to figure out a way to reshape his/her job to make it sustainable (and thus keep the paychecks coming) rather than just saying "uh, sure, go deal with your problems, take as long as you need; when you run out of money we'll still have your job here for you."

Plus -- "first newborn in the house" is something that causes upheaval for maybe 6 months or so, and then life settles down again. If you have a supportive/flexible work environment then "up all night with a crying baby" here and there (before the baby grows out of that stage!) doesn't result in crushing stress and visions of disaster.

Edit for more context -- we have a developer who works part time and sometimes takes long sabbaticals -- switching into his alter-ego as a theater director. It's quite a different sort of situation from someone who has a newborn and is burning out.

Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#56

1. Quitting and finding a new job doing the same thing (dev I presume) might not solve the issues. It could lead to additional stressors that worsen the problem. 2. As an employer, make it easy for me! Be able to say what's going on matter-of-factly with a focus on how you feel and how it affects yourself. Don't focus on other people, now is not the time to air grievances within the team. Come up with a few options y…

I can't stress (no pun intended) #3 enough. Mental health is too stigmatized. See a good psychologist! Many specialize in this type of stress. In addition, try guided meditation (I use Headspace). It feels kind of hokey at first, but it really helped me through a burnout period.

What exactly do you talk to a psychologist about?

I've often mused with the idea, perhaps there is some systemic issue that I need to have help with identifying and resolving... But then...what? Perhaps we have all seen way too many movies involving psychologists/psychiatrists, that it's slanted our view. I know it has slanted it for me.

Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#57

My manager and I had a 10 year relationship going. I had just transitioned to a new role, had a new born and taken on too much. I was feeling it for 6 months but finally broke at around 9 months. I told him I couldn't do it anymore and that I wanted a sabbatical. I told them that my backup plan was to just quit. He talked me off the ledge and within a day had transitioned my troublesome projects to others and moved m…

This is a good story, and I'm glad your boss reacted well. But, it sort of bothers me how it's not considered acceptable in this world to take a sabbatical. Why are companies so against the idea of people taking a few months off in a row, especially if otherwise they would just quit?

Even managers/companies that would be happy for someone to take a few months sabbatical from their job would probably not want to be asked a day or two before the sabbatical would start.

Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#58

My manager and I had a 10 year relationship going. I had just transitioned to a new role, had a new born and taken on too much. I was feeling it for 6 months but finally broke at around 9 months. I told him I couldn't do it anymore and that I wanted a sabbatical. I told them that my backup plan was to just quit. He talked me off the ledge and within a day had transitioned my troublesome projects to others and moved m…

Any manager which cares about their employees would say that, "you should have come to me sooner." Only issue is how many managers are actually empathetic?

IMO it depends on the employee. I have some where I'd for sure go to bat to keep them around. I have some who slack off, put in minimal hours, and do a terrible job checking their work. They're a net positive, but barely, and if they were to throw a fit like that I'd tell them to take a hike.

Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#59
post #38

I'm a boss of devs. My off the cuff response to you is "please, god _please_, talk to your boss." Say exactly what you told us. "I'm burnt out, I've tried addressing the problem..." Before you do, think through what's causing the burnout. It could be the hours, that's where everyone goes first, but it could be a particular client, it could be the number of projects you're having to concurrently work, it could be your…

I think it's important to understand that burnout is situational depression and/or anxiety. If you are burning out it's important to recognize that it's not some special software developer thing its a real psychological issue that professionals can help with. There's no shame in admitting that and getting help beyond just trying to talk to your boss.

Re: Ask HN: Discuss burnout with boss?

#60

My manager and I had a 10 year relationship going. I had just transitioned to a new role, had a new born and taken on too much. I was feeling it for 6 months but finally broke at around 9 months. I told him I couldn't do it anymore and that I wanted a sabbatical. I told them that my backup plan was to just quit. He talked me off the ledge and within a day had transitioned my troublesome projects to others and moved m…

I would like to interject: This heavily depends on the boss. I've seen great bosses who will make stuff like this happen, and I've seen terrible bosses who don't give a shit. Make sure you work for the right-kind of boss if you are going to take this approach!

Speaking as a boss who I'd like to think falls into the former category... If you don't ask you won't know what they'll do for you or not. Could be your boss doesn't help or makes it worse then you know exactly what to do next - quit,move to another team, or take it to hr id its really hostile. That dick boss is probably the reason for your burnout (aka situational depression caused by work) so the solution is in moving on.
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