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The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

well.blogs.nytimes.com

101–110 of 112 posts

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#101
post #57
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>"eat a reasonably varied diet that is calorie restricted?" Define "reasonably" and "restricted". Otherwise, you might as well say "If everyone just did the right thing, everything would be as it should!" which has no actionable component. >>"people who have lived on nothing but twinkies or McD for a month and stil lost weight?" ....but suffered dozens of other health problems that'll lead to an early grave. "Super…

Super size me has been (politely) not reproducible, or less politely, shown to be shockingly full of crap. http://www.sott.net/article/126285-Supersize-me-revisited-un... http://www.cracked.com/article_20585_6-famous-documentaries-... Moral: popular media is a horrible source of scientific knowledge

Well that's interesting! I'm still convinced that living on Twinkies & McD's isn't going to result in quality health, but it's good to know the super-size-me person had to lie in his documentary.

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#102

> It’s really important to distinguish between healthy fats and bad fats, healthy carbs and bad carbs What a bunch of crap. They said the same thing about cholesterol after fucking up monumentally and the history repeats itself over and over again. Just man up, recognize how incompetent you are, how your non-scientific advice has been hurting people over the past 50 years and switch jobs because the science you're pr…

There is a ton of evidence demonstrating the pro-inflammatory and obesegenic properties of saturated fat. People want to vilify processed foods, but processing isn't inherently bad. Aspirin is basically processed willow bark, and it is more effective, precise and pleasant to consume. Granted, most processed foods haven't been designed with optimal nutrition as a goal, but the potential is there. We shouldn't be anti-…

> There is a ton of evidence demonstrating the pro-inflammatory and obesegenic properties of saturated fat.

Yet most of those studies have been shown to be flawed and are contradicted by newer studies. The world's health organizations have been back-paddling on this, because wouldn't you know, the trans-fats that we ended up eating on our quest for low-fat are the fats that are actually linked to cancer or cardiovascular disease.

> People want to vilify processed foods, but processing isn't inherently bad. Aspirin is basically processed willow bark

Aspirin is not food. Name a processed food that proved to be healthy.

And it is true that we as humans have always modified our environment and selected for the traits we wanted in our domesticated crops and animals. We also adapted to new foods, like cow milk. But this process has lasted for tens of thousands of years at least, whereas current "innovations" are newer than 30 years without us knowing enough about food and nutrition to make health claims. One day humanity might get used to the current blend of processed foods based primarily on corn, soy and fossil fuels, but I for one refuse to be the sacrice generation ;-)

> milk fat is quite poor from a health standpoint, being high in palmitate

Milk is a very complex substance and this reductionism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductionism) doesn't apply well to food. Here's one study that claims that people consuming high-fat milk are not more prone to cardiovascular diseases and even more so people consuming high-fat milk are less likely to get fat from it, versus people consuming low-fat milk: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00394-012-0418-1

Here's another study showing that people consuming full-fat diary have a 69% less risk of cardiovascular disease: http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v64/n6/abs/ejcn201045a.ht...

> the single biggest problem most people have is consuming too many calories

Yet those extra calories are not coming from high-fat milk, but from the cheap high-fructose corn syrup that has been flooding the market for tens of years due to subsidies, most of it ending up in the processed food we consume, including low-fat milk, because in case you don't know, in the process of stripping the fat from milk and of ultra-pasteurizing it, the milk loses its texture and taste, plus it has to travel a lot, so it has to be supplemented with things such as powder milk, artificial colourants and preservatives (based on petroleum) and HFCS.

> It isn't like there are a ton of fat soluble vitamins in milk that you lose switching to a reduced fat option, it's just empty calories.

Not all calories are created equal and milk is rich in essential nutrients that we need, like calcium, vitamin A and D, phosphorous or B vitamins amongst others. Even its fatty acids are essential for us. And there are recent studies showing that the fat in milk helps our body absorb it better, yet we are stripping it out, then enhancing its taste in a process meant to fool our senses. You think it's just the fat that goes, but that's not true.

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#103

The role of liver function and glycogen should be included in this conversation.[1] There might be a lot more at work than just elevated blood sugar levels. In most normal people, meaning without diabetes and other metabolism problems, the liver doesn't immediately convert sugar to fat. Rather extra sugar is converted to glycogen which can be easily accessed for energy. What happens when a runner carbo loads the nigh…

> ... the fast should begin around 5pm ... there is no reason to have big dinners which are ridiculous Actually there is a very big reason for why your advice is harmful, for me at least, but I suspect that for others as well. At 5pm I'm still at work, which means that whatever meal I'll have will be fast food and not a home cooked meal. But even more problematic is that dinner is also the perfect opportunity to sit…

> At 5pm I'm still at work, which means that whatever meal I'll have will be fast food and not a home cooked meal.

You can also take a "home cooked meal" with you to work - for lunch purposes.

> But even more problematic is that dinner is also the perfect opportunity to sit together with your family

It is an opportunity - why do you think it is the _perfect_ opportunity?

> The family dinner is a matter of cultural inheritance that we've been forgetting and ...

There are many ways to share time together - it's not necessary to eat while doing so.

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a ton of evidence demonstrating the pro-inflammatory and obesegenic properties of saturated fat. People want to vilify processed foods, but processing isn't inherently bad. Aspirin is basically processed willow bark, and it is more effective, precise and pleasant to consume. Granted, most processed foods haven't been designed with optimal nutrition as a goal, but the potential is there. We shouldn't be anti-…

> There is a ton of evidence demonstrating the pro-inflammatory and obesegenic properties of saturated fat. Yet most of those studies have been shown to be flawed and are contradicted by newer studies. The world's health organizations have been back-paddling on this, because wouldn't you know, the trans-fats that we ended up eating on our quest for low-fat are the fats that are actually linked to cancer or cardiovasc…

No, the research demonstrating saturated fat's pro-inflammatory and obesegenic properties isn't being refuted, if anything the pace of publications (particularly on the pro-inflammatory aspect) has increased.

Want healthy processed food ingredients? Try whey protein, oat fiber, coconut flour (it isn't just ground coconut), resistant corn starch, fish oil (purified to remove heavy metals and the like) or medium chain triglycerides. All of these are better for you than the whole foods they're derived from.

You realize with the epidemiology studies you linked me that the answer is almost certainly not some "magic substance" present in milk fat, but a confounding factor that correlates with consumption of whole fat dairy? I've seen epidemiology studies showing butter intake is the single best predictor of adiposity among a wide variety of measured variables; shouldn't the "magic of milk-fat" result in butter-consumers being leaner?

Basically all the vitamins and minerals present in whole fat milk are also present in skim milk. As for the fatty acids in milk being essential, there are two essential fatty acids: linoleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid. Linoleic acid makes up about 3% of the fatty acid composition of milk fat, while alpha-linolenic acid is only at about 1%; not exactly a great source.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "enhancing its taste in a process meant to fool our senses", the skim milk I buy has 2 ingredients: milk and vitamin d.

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#105
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for you. I could easily put down 6000 calories worth of peanut butter in one shot, but if I tried that with pasta I probably wouldn't break 4000, and with veggies I probably wouldn't break 1500.

6000 kcal of peanut butter is about 1kg. I'd be tempted to pay to see you do that. But how much you are able to stuff yourself with isn't the full story without knowing how long it takes you to get hungry again.

> I'd be tempted to pay to see you do that.

How much?

> But how much you are able to stuff yourself with isn't the full story without knowing how long it takes you to get hungry again.

Certainly less than 2 days.

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#106

The role of liver function and glycogen should be included in this conversation.[1] There might be a lot more at work than just elevated blood sugar levels. In most normal people, meaning without diabetes and other metabolism problems, the liver doesn't immediately convert sugar to fat. Rather extra sugar is converted to glycogen which can be easily accessed for energy. What happens when a runner carbo loads the nigh…

> For a person who wakes up around 7am the fast should begin around 5pm in order to let the sugars deplete around bed time. There is no reason to have readily available sugars while sleeping.

This is not convincing. According to [1] it seems like system glucose utilization is only about 10-20% lower during sleep.

Muscles store even more glycogen than the liver btw (~500g vs ~100g).

1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC293874/

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#107
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also recommend reading Gary Taubes' Why We Get Fat: http://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Get-Fat-About/dp/0307474259

This book is kind of a joke among people who are seriously interested in nutrition. There is some decent information in there, and the research Taubes is doing now actually seems like it might be pretty good, but the book has some really bad conclusions that are not supported by science. It's a good intro book, but take it with a big grain of salt.

Interesting. What do the serious nutrition folk recommend? (Also if there's anything specific for skinny low-appetite folk...)

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#108
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American overweight problem is cultural and not an issue with eating high or low glycemic foods like the article states. If losing weight is an issue for someone. They are better off having a larger second meal and a smaller third meal even if that third meal is at 9 or 10pm so they can enjoy it with family or after work. The idea is not to have more blood sugar than then the liver can store as glycogen at bed ti…

It really really doesn't matter how you time your calories.

Nor does it matter whether you eat carbs or fats or protein. In the immortal words of Doctor Rudy, 'You haf. To eat. Less.'

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Wife's a great cook " I think you've succinctly expressed one of the core issues that we have as individuals and as a society: we love tasty food more than we love healthy food. We generally consider meals that derive flavor from fats and sugars as great/tasty/enjoyable while we relegate more healthy options as that which we only eat to either make up for or "save calories for" the meals that we really enjoy.

Not necessarily - overeating is the real issue. Wife may cook those alfalfa sprouts to perfection. He just eats a bushel.

I'd like to hear from someone who got fat eating too many vegetables that weren't covered in oils or other toppings.

Re: The Fats You Don’t Need to Fear, and the Carbs That You Do

#110
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This book is kind of a joke among people who are seriously interested in nutrition. There is some decent information in there, and the research Taubes is doing now actually seems like it might be pretty good, but the book has some really bad conclusions that are not supported by science. It's a good intro book, but take it with a big grain of salt.

Interesting. What do the serious nutrition folk recommend? (Also if there's anything specific for skinny low-appetite folk...)

It really depends on your goals and what you are looking to learn. It sounds like maybe you are trying to put on weight, in which case I can't recommend whole milk enough :) But if you want to be more specific about what you'd like to learn I can recommend some resources.
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