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Female violinist exposes 10 years of lewd, fetishizing messages from men online

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Re: Female violinist exposes 10 years of lewd, fetishizing messages from men online

#41

Post by jbob2000 »

benten10 wrote: post #21
jbob2000 wrote: post #14

There's nothing we can do. Her music reached hundreds of thousands of people, of course there will be some bad apples. As more and more people start using the internet, this is only going to increase. There's going to be 3.5 billion people on the internet soon, nobody can stop that tide. Celebrities have solved this problem by moving a step away from the population by using publicists and assistants to communicate. P…

Compare the second part you say to the following: >IF I come and creep you out, stalk you, threaten harm to you and your family, maybe you should just change name and location, and go live in a different state. Pre-empting the 'but this is internet, just stop looking at it', argument: Essentially, how is it different from "if X group of people doesn't want to be harassed, they should just avoid their harassers, and n…

I totally get where you're coming from, I don't like what I suggested either. But it is reality. We would be ignorant to say "Shouldn't people just stop harassing?". People won't stop harassing. You can educate and PSA the hell out of the issue. It will not stop. You can lessen it, but it won't stop; welcome to Humanity.

Like I said, celebrities have been dealing with this for decades. It's only become an issue now because "commoners" are much more capable of reaching fame than ever before. Nobody shed any tears for the hundreds of actors and actresses who have been harassed over the years. "That's fame, deal with it" they said.

>IF I come and creep you out, stalk you, threaten harm to you and your family, maybe you should just change name and location, and go live in a different state.

I would alter that to say "maybe you should contact the police".

Re: Female violinist exposes 10 years of lewd, fetishizing messages from men online

#42

Post by jbob2000 »

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #26
jbob2000 wrote: post #14

There's nothing we can do. Her music reached hundreds of thousands of people, of course there will be some bad apples. As more and more people start using the internet, this is only going to increase. There's going to be 3.5 billion people on the internet soon, nobody can stop that tide. Celebrities have solved this problem by moving a step away from the population by using publicists and assistants to communicate. P…

Or perhaps creeps could try stop being creeps.

Yeah totally. And murders should stop being murders. And rapists should stop being rapists. So easy!

Re: Female violinist exposes 10 years of lewd, fetishizing messages from men online

#43

Post by msie »

bsenftner wrote: post #27
6stringmerc wrote: post #7

What a terrible experience, yet I'm not surprised to know such things happen. I hope it's theraputic for her to get these out, and if she can turn the intimidation into some financial gains then so be it. Is there a way to discourage the behavior? It's a tough problem. As an anecdote, I just had a discussion with a female community college professor, PhD, one who had plenty of bench science experience before teaching…

Great comment, not sure why it was down voted. Cultures outside the US are often surprising.

Because it comes off as being slightly smug?

Re: Female violinist exposes 10 years of lewd, fetishizing messages from men online

#44

Post by benten10 »

jbob2000 wrote: post #41
benten10 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare the second part you say to the following: >IF I come and creep you out, stalk you, threaten harm to you and your family, maybe you should just change name and location, and go live in a different state. Pre-empting the 'but this is internet, just stop looking at it', argument: Essentially, how is it different from "if X group of people doesn't want to be harassed, they should just avoid their harassers, and n…

I totally get where you're coming from, I don't like what I suggested either. But it is reality. We would be ignorant to say "Shouldn't people just stop harassing?". People won't stop harassing. You can educate and PSA the hell out of the issue. It will not stop. You can lessen it, but it won't stop; welcome to Humanity. Like I said, celebrities have been dealing with this for decades. It's only become an issue now b…

Yupp. As many, including Brianna Wu, have done. Then what? The harasser could be a 21 year old man in Siberia, covering himself up with multiple layers of anonymity.

I'm suggesting that the attackers will keep attacking until you leave the platform, or just shut up, and so they will have won. The means to police harassment is not yet where we expect it to be. Why should those that are being attacked be on the lookout? As many in this forum feel, if the governmental authorities shouldn't have the abilities to shut you up, why should randos on the internet? (I would argue they can, and often are both one and the same)

Imagine suggesting to Cory Doctorow that he should work under a pseudonym because the British government doesn't like what he's saying. My argument is: what you're saying is equivalent to that.

Re: Female violinist exposes 10 years of lewd, fetishizing messages from men online

#45

Post by dvdgsng »

dbg31415 wrote: post #38
szukai wrote: post #9

Glanced over quickly, some are more crude attempts to "flirt" than to creepy, but I guess that just goes with the status quo given the complaints girls get on dating sites like Okcupid. Kinda cool to see it all at once I guess?

Let me throw this out there too... I had a conversation with a friend after finding pictures of his girlfriend on OK Cupid. I was like, "Hey either your girlfriend is trying to cheat on you, or someone is stealing her identity." He laughed, and said (paraphrased), "No, she kept complaining about how she didn't feel attractive, so we posted an account there for her to get some more attention. We read the comments toge…

Thanks for posting this. The whole debate needs a lot more counter-perspectives and this is a pretty good one.

Here is another one. http://theslot.jezebel.com/canadians-elect-guy-named-justin-... Just imagine the outcry in the feminist community if the genders were swapped and this had been written by a man about some female politician.

Re: Female violinist exposes 10 years of lewd, fetishizing messages from men online

#46

Post by microcolonel »

I don't have any public presence, and yet I get creepy messages as well. I suspect the volume, ~100 creepy messages per anum, owes to being more visible.

A few of these messages sound aggressive, but most of them seem like lonely dudes without outlets. Maybe they think they are the first to compliment the lady.

And, although I'm sure I'll catch flak for saying this; there are in fact women who get off on all these things[0]. They make up a large part of the population. I'm not sure about the strategy, but the demographic for these messages exists.

[0]: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jsm.12734/abstrac...

Re: Female violinist exposes 10 years of lewd, fetishizing messages from men online

#47

Post by bargl »

aikah wrote: post #13
mulander wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be funny if they experience harassment out of being exposed as a harassing person. This seems something that could happen on the internet.

> Would be funny if they experience harassment out of being exposed as a harassing person. This seems something that could happen on the internet. Yeah, the whole vendetta thing certainly is "funny" /s That's exactly how people defending "righteous causes" end up being trolls and harassers themselves.

It's part of human nature. It's the old idea of an eye for an eye (which was originally intended to say if someone takes your eye you can't take MORE then an eye, but has been misrepresented as if someone takes your eye you have the right to take theirs.

Society has to be built on some form of punishment for harmful behavior, the issue is what is that punishment? Should these people go to jail? I don't think so, should they be punished in some way as a method to teach them a lesson.

If they should be taught a lesson, the favorite of most people is, "see this is how it feels." Steal and we'll take something from you, bite and be bitten, hit and be hit, eye for an eye.

The main issue is that this often (IMO) doesn't actually teach what you want. It teaches that if you bit this person they'll bite you but it doesn't address the deeper issue with the original action. Which would require therapy and a support network. All of which is time consuming.

And why would we waste our time on someone who is being punished, lets just throw them in jail because hitting people in public is wrong.

In the end it's human nature to want to teach a lesson in the least amount of effort to make themselves feel better, and the easiest way to get your bang for your buck it to punish people with the same punishment they received, often times things are more complicated then that.

Sorry I went way overboard, but I've seen this time and time again, and as I have a biting, kicking, hitting 19 month old kid now, I've been looking at how do you address this without becoming a troll and in my case a toddler... I want my kid to grow up not for me to become less mature.

Re: Female violinist exposes 10 years of lewd, fetishizing messages from men online

#48

Post by jbob2000 »

benten10 wrote: post #44
jbob2000 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally get where you're coming from, I don't like what I suggested either. But it is reality. We would be ignorant to say "Shouldn't people just stop harassing?". People won't stop harassing. You can educate and PSA the hell out of the issue. It will not stop. You can lessen it, but it won't stop; welcome to Humanity. Like I said, celebrities have been dealing with this for decades. It's only become an issue now b…

Yupp. As many, including Brianna Wu, have done. Then what? The harasser could be a 21 year old man in Siberia, covering himself up with multiple layers of anonymity. I'm suggesting that the attackers will keep attacking until you leave the platform, or just shut up, and so they will have won. The means to police harassment is not yet where we expect it to be. Why should those that are being attacked be on the lookout…

I'm not going to pretend I have answer, but I'm just going to repeat what I said; that celebrities have been trying to solve this problem for a long time. They hire security, have security installed in their homes, etc. etc.

Plugging our ears and saying "LALALA the bad guys need to stop being bad" won't solve anything. Because yes, people will hide behind proxies.

You don't need to leave the platform. You don't need to move states. But you do need to do something. You can't just sit around waiting for someone to come to your rescue.

Re: Female violinist exposes 10 years of lewd, fetishizing messages from men online

#49

Post by [deleted] »

benten10 wrote: post #25
aikah wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would be funny if they experience harassment out of being exposed as a harassing person. This seems something that could happen on the internet. Yeah, the whole vendetta thing certainly is "funny" /s That's exactly how people defending "righteous causes" end up being trolls and harassers themselves.

>That's exactly how people defending "righteous causes" end up being trolls and harassers themselves. When one misuses their abilities to harass/intimidate others, some of their liberty should be taken away, wouldn't you agree?

[deleted]

Re: Female violinist exposes 10 years of lewd, fetishizing messages from men online

#50

Post by unprepare »

msie wrote: post #43
bsenftner wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great comment, not sure why it was down voted. Cultures outside the US are often surprising.

Because it comes off as being slightly smug?

Personally, I feel that downvotes should only be used for comments that do not add anything constructive to a conversation.

I don't see how a downvote contributes constructively to the thread in this situation.

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