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Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#141

Post by dumbmatter »

mandor wrote: post #84
teekert wrote: post #46

I also don't like it but the paper needs be printed and reviewed. This is not free. Perhaps we should agree that the publishing group pays for the entire cost of the article so that it can be free after the process of publishing it? Or boycot paywalled publishers, maybe go for PLOS? If you have ever complained about paywalls, don't ever publish in a paywalled journal yourself. I'm all for free papers by the way, noth…

> I also don't like it but the paper needs be printed and reviewed. - Reviews are always free (nobody gets paid for reviewing academic paper, in contrast to grant proposal for which we are sometimes paid) - I have not seen a printed version of a journal for a while (except the very big ones like Nature or Science, but we buy them mostly for the news/view section, not that much for the academic papers at the end) - Co…

So why do open access online-only publishers like PLoS charge $3k/article? Is that just pure profit?

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#142

Post by kragen »

dalke wrote: post #124
kragen wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you know more about the Swedish and German library systems than I do.

Sure, but I don't know about 'most of the rest of the [developed] world', which apparently you do.

My brief visits to France, England, Japan, and Brazil have left me deeply unimpressed with their public library systems. Here in Argentina there are bookstores everywhere but they sell almost exclusively fiction (including astrology, psychology, revisionist history, etc.; maybe "matters of opinion" is a more charitable term) and the library system is a poor shadow of what I'm used to even in the poor parts of the US. And of course Micronesia's library system was a joke when I was there, but it doesn't count as "developed".

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#143

Post by antognini »

leephillips wrote: post #96
TeMPOraL wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please consult the various citations under links and references provided in this entire subthread, which claim otherwise. Galileo was an important scientist and his model did turn out to be a step in the right direction, but historical record suggests that he didn't have enough evidence to promote his model back at the time.

"enough evidence to promote his model" I don't know what this is supposed to mean. For Galileo, his observations that Venus had phases, like the Moon, and that Jupiter had its own moons, and more, were enough to convince him that the Copernican theory was more likely to be correct than the geocentric model. We now know that he interpreted the evidence correctly.

The model that most scientists at the time favored (including those in the Church) was the Tychonic system. In the Tychonic system the planets all revolved around the Sun, but the Sun then revolved around the stationary Earth. This had the advantage of correctly predicting things like the phases of Venus.

The reason that it was preferred over the Copernican system was that it additionally predicted that parallax of the stars should not be observed. At the time astronomers had looked for parallax as a way to test the Copernican system, and had not observed it. This was the strongest point in favor of the Tychonic system. As it happened, the stars were much further away than astronomers at the time realized, so the parallax was much smaller than they could have detected with the instruments of the time. (In fact, it took more than two centuries before parallax was detected.)

But the point is that I think that if any of us were alive at the time and took careful stock of all the evidence most of us would probably come to the same conclusion that most of the astronomers of time did. Namely that, while interesting, the Copernican system did not have as much evidence supporting it as the Tychonic system did. But if Galileo had built a Foucault pendulum instead, it would have been a very different story!

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#144

Post by JupiterMoon »

dumbmatter wrote: post #137
JupiterMoon wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you publish get generally get sent a stack of hard copies for distribution to whoever you feel like sending to (usually far more than you have people to send to). Sending the reprints is legal. Sending the pdf is either illegal or legal or more likely a huge grey area which as an author you can't be bothered to work out. Postage is free in most academic departments and not much harder than sending an email. Ther…

Really? I've published a bunch of papers and only ever got one hard copy - and that was one copy of the journal, no additional copies to share.

I guess it depends upon the journal.

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#145

Post by masklinn »

refurb wrote: post #131
RobertKerans wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you'd be peeved, but if the businesses in question is parasitic it's extremely difficult to raise even a modicum of sympathy

Why is it parasitic again? These journals are providing a service. You may not agree with the cost of that service and are free (both authors and reader) to get that service somewhere else.

> These journals are providing a service.

The journals provide a service, but Elsevier is a rent-seeking entity, it buys up/takes over publications and hikes up prices.

http://imechanica.org/node/1531#comment-3251 estimates that the International Journal of Solids and Structures cost about $0.5m/year to run and had revenues of about $3.5m, or a net profit of $3m going to Elsevier for owning the journal and little else.

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#146

Post by Rangi42 »

refurb wrote: post #131
RobertKerans wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you'd be peeved, but if the businesses in question is parasitic it's extremely difficult to raise even a modicum of sympathy

Why is it parasitic again? These journals are providing a service. You may not agree with the cost of that service and are free (both authors and reader) to get that service somewhere else.

It's parasitic because they're charging authors and readers. If publishing is a service to the author, then the author is paying to have their work seen, so it should be open access. If publishing is a service to the readers (as with book publishing), the author should get a share of each copy sold to a reader. Charging both parties is only a viable business model because there's no alternative—which is exactly what these linguists hope to fix.

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#147

Post by [deleted] »

refurb wrote: post #131
RobertKerans wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you'd be peeved, but if the businesses in question is parasitic it's extremely difficult to raise even a modicum of sympathy

Why is it parasitic again? These journals are providing a service. You may not agree with the cost of that service and are free (both authors and reader) to get that service somewhere else.

[deleted]

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#148

Post by a_e_k »

masklinn wrote: post #138
ultramancool wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that's very impressive. I hope other journals will follow suit.

It's not the first time it happened, the entire editorial board of Topology[0] resigned and went on to create the Journal of Topology back in 2006~2007, and over way less than the Lingua demands: Topology's editor just wanted better (lower) pricing policies. Same story for the Journal of Logic Programming (in 2000), the Journal of Algorithms (in 2003) or the International Journal of Solids and Structures (in 2005). […

In my field, graphics, this happened with the Journal of Graphics Tools. The editors founded the Journal of Computer Graphics Techniques in 2012.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Graphics_Tools

[1] http://casual-effects.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-journal-of-co...

[2] http://jcgt.org/

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#149

Post by dalke »

kragen wrote: post #142
dalke wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but I don't know about 'most of the rest of the [developed] world', which apparently you do.

My brief visits to France, England, Japan, and Brazil have left me deeply unimpressed with their public library systems. Here in Argentina there are bookstores everywhere but they sell almost exclusively fiction (including astrology, psychology, revisionist history, etc.; maybe "matters of opinion" is a more charitable term) and the library system is a poor shadow of what I'm used to even in the poor parts of the US.…

Based on your clarification, it appears that your comments are opinion based on a couple of brief personal experiences. From your original comment I assumed you were making a broader and more definite statement. Thank you for correcting my assumption.

Regarding the English library system, as JupiterMoon pointed out, the British library provides interlibrary loan services, which is the topic at hand. In fact, I've used it from Sweden.

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#150

Post by joesmo »

ajuc wrote: post #3

Good for them. Living in developing country you learn to ignore copyright or you never learn anything. I don't know if it was invented as a way for developed countries to keep competive advantage, but it sure would work that way if people actually obeyed.

Ironically, the same thing is also a must in the richest country on earth should you wish to actually learn something.
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