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How the war on drugs creates violence

washingtonpost.com

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Re: How the war on drugs creates violence

#51

Post by JoeAltmaier »

sixQuarks wrote: post #48

Besides all of the stated reasons to legalize/decriminalize, I think just as important is personal liberty. I should be free to experiment with my own consciousness (so long as it does not impede on the rights of others) - how much more personal can you get? For the government to impede on this is unconscionable (pun intended).

This is not happening in a vacuum. There's already problems with experimentation causing considerable public expense, exposure to danger and needless suffering. Anybody can give you an anecdote - I will resist posting mine since they are a dime a dozen.

Re: How the war on drugs creates violence

#52

Post by planfaster »

cubano wrote: post #44

I just don't think many people realize just how much legal corporate and government "business" is created by the insane war on drugs, and I am convinced this is the reason why it continues. Like I mentioned before, I just spent 6 months in the deep bowels of the criminal justice system for drug possession here in Florida, and those observations have shaped this view. The cops, the judges, the lawyers on both sides (w…

This is so true. We have two very recent examples of this, first the US presence in Afghanistan and second the DEA having just left Bolivia. But the media dare not touch this level of analysis.

Re: How the war on drugs creates violence

#53

Post by lighthawk »

sixQuarks wrote: post #48

Besides all of the stated reasons to legalize/decriminalize, I think just as important is personal liberty. I should be free to experiment with my own consciousness (so long as it does not impede on the rights of others) - how much more personal can you get? For the government to impede on this is unconscionable (pun intended).

> so long as it does not impede on the rights of others

This is really the crux of the problem. How do you suggest that you legalize all drugs and then keep people on those drugs from harming others? Public safety has a hard enough time without having to deal with some unknown number of additional people that would try drugs are harm themselves or others if those drugs were legal.

Re: How the war on drugs creates violence

#54

Post by alsetmusic »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #51
sixQuarks wrote: post #48

Besides all of the stated reasons to legalize/decriminalize, I think just as important is personal liberty. I should be free to experiment with my own consciousness (so long as it does not impede on the rights of others) - how much more personal can you get? For the government to impede on this is unconscionable (pun intended).

This is not happening in a vacuum. There's already problems with experimentation causing considerable public expense, exposure to danger and needless suffering. Anybody can give you an anecdote - I will resist posting mine since they are a dime a dozen.

> Anybody can give you an anecdote - I will resist posting mine since they are a dime a dozen.

Links to reputable studies backing this up would be welcome.

Re: How the war on drugs creates violence

#55

Post by sixQuarks »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #51
sixQuarks wrote: post #48

Besides all of the stated reasons to legalize/decriminalize, I think just as important is personal liberty. I should be free to experiment with my own consciousness (so long as it does not impede on the rights of others) - how much more personal can you get? For the government to impede on this is unconscionable (pun intended).

This is not happening in a vacuum. There's already problems with experimentation causing considerable public expense, exposure to danger and needless suffering. Anybody can give you an anecdote - I will resist posting mine since they are a dime a dozen.

You can say that about anything. Should the government stop people from eating junk food? from participating in dangerous sports activities? Why are drugs different?

Re: How the war on drugs creates violence

#56

Post by alsetmusic »

cubano wrote: post #44

I just don't think many people realize just how much legal corporate and government "business" is created by the insane war on drugs, and I am convinced this is the reason why it continues. Like I mentioned before, I just spent 6 months in the deep bowels of the criminal justice system for drug possession here in Florida, and those observations have shaped this view. The cops, the judges, the lawyers on both sides (w…

I watched someone get out of jury duty by articulating his view of the prison system as a for-profit enterprise a couple years ago. He spoke brilliantly and was immediately dismissed.

Re: How the war on drugs creates violence

#57

Post by sixQuarks »

lighthawk wrote: post #53
sixQuarks wrote: post #48

Besides all of the stated reasons to legalize/decriminalize, I think just as important is personal liberty. I should be free to experiment with my own consciousness (so long as it does not impede on the rights of others) - how much more personal can you get? For the government to impede on this is unconscionable (pun intended).

> so long as it does not impede on the rights of others This is really the crux of the problem. How do you suggest that you legalize all drugs and then keep people on those drugs from harming others? Public safety has a hard enough time without having to deal with some unknown number of additional people that would try drugs are harm themselves or others if those drugs were legal.

No, the crux of the problem is your line of thinking. The government cannot and should not replace personal responsibility.

Your argument would mean that no one could drive a car or drink alcohol. Why are drugs different?

Re: How the war on drugs creates violence

#58

Post by planfaster »

wz1000 wrote: post #45
ptaipale wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So why the Big Pharma isn't lobbying for ending the war on drugs? Because the stuff used as illegal drugs is actually dangerous to health, and pharma industry selling that stuff -- even if completely pure and legitimate -- would be disastrous for their public image, and profits. The public will want separate recreational drug companies (but even then there will be "revelations" that Big Pharma is "secretly" produci…

> Because the stuff used as illegal drugs is actually dangerous to health Recreational drugs are not inherently any more dangerous than the chemicals produced for medicinal use. They are the same kind of thing, recreational drugs just happen to be used for, well, recreation. Some recreational chemicals are even less dangerous than drugs you can get OTC. For example, LSD has a stellar safety record. There are no recor…

Having perused the literature it seems that everything you said of LSD is also true of psilocybin.

Re: How the war on drugs creates violence

#59

Post by pizza234 »

cubano wrote: post #44

I just don't think many people realize just how much legal corporate and government "business" is created by the insane war on drugs, and I am convinced this is the reason why it continues. Like I mentioned before, I just spent 6 months in the deep bowels of the criminal justice system for drug possession here in Florida, and those observations have shaped this view. The cops, the judges, the lawyers on both sides (w…

This is the thesis of the documentary "The House I Live In", which is a suggested watch for anybody who has an interest in the subject[s].

Re: How the war on drugs creates violence

#60

Post by werber »

lighthawk wrote: post #53
sixQuarks wrote: post #48

Besides all of the stated reasons to legalize/decriminalize, I think just as important is personal liberty. I should be free to experiment with my own consciousness (so long as it does not impede on the rights of others) - how much more personal can you get? For the government to impede on this is unconscionable (pun intended).

> so long as it does not impede on the rights of others This is really the crux of the problem. How do you suggest that you legalize all drugs and then keep people on those drugs from harming others? Public safety has a hard enough time without having to deal with some unknown number of additional people that would try drugs are harm themselves or others if those drugs were legal.

>How do you suggest that you legalize all drugs and then keep people on those drugs from harming others?

The bulk of the societal harm that comes from drug use is in the steps people take to get drugs, not from the actual drug use. Having adverse reactions to drugs can be mitigated by actually knowing what you're taking. And removing the stigma and taking on addiction as a public health issue and not a criminal one is a huge boost to community safety.

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