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Myths of the private prison industry

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Re: Myths of the private prison industry

#21

Post by ericHosick »

rcurry wrote: post #7

I really don't think prisons should be run by private corporations. I was already kind of leery about it, but the whole "kids for cash" scandal in Pennsylvania was the last straw. There's no way I can be convinced that we can ever trust a for-profit corporation to manage a prison. There are just too many opportunities for corruption.

The root cause problem is entities that have a monopoly on defining what is initiation of violence.

This incentives the criminalization of non-violent acts which provide both financial and political advantages.

Re: Myths of the private prison industry

#22

Post by nevdka »

hugh4 wrote: post #4
nateabele wrote: post #2

I know someone who stayed in a GEO prison. Based on everything I heard about it, I have to imagine that there's some mid-level accountant who knows exactly, down to the penny, how much money they make per inmate per day. One example: when you're given a spork with your first meal, you might think that was the spork for just that meal, and toss it out with your meal tray. Wrong move. That was your prison-issue spork.…

That gives me an idea: prison vouchers. Give each prisoner a voucher for a certain amount and let them choose where they want to serve out their sentence. Prisons will compete to offer tolerably humane conditions to inmates while still keeping under budget. (Prison escapes will be punished by huge fines so there's no incentive to cheap out on security.) Flaws with this system: do prisons have to take a given inmate?…

The ultimate goal of prisons is (or should be) to reduce crime. Why not directly incentivise prisons to reduce recidivism? Pay big bonuses if the ex-inmates aren't arrested/convicted/etc in the 3-5 years after they're released.

Re: Myths of the private prison industry

#23

Post by hugh4 »

nevdka wrote: post #22
hugh4 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That gives me an idea: prison vouchers. Give each prisoner a voucher for a certain amount and let them choose where they want to serve out their sentence. Prisons will compete to offer tolerably humane conditions to inmates while still keeping under budget. (Prison escapes will be punished by huge fines so there's no incentive to cheap out on security.) Flaws with this system: do prisons have to take a given inmate?…

The ultimate goal of prisons is (or should be) to reduce crime. Why not directly incentivise prisons to reduce recidivism? Pay big bonuses if the ex-inmates aren't arrested/convicted/etc in the 3-5 years after they're released.

Yes, that's probably a better way of aligning incentives.

Plus it could be trialled on a small scale at first with just a few prisons. The main thing you'd need to watch out for is that prisons didnt just start working hard to offload their worst prisoners elsewhere.

Re: Myths of the private prison industry

#24

Post by [deleted] »

nevdka wrote: post #22
hugh4 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That gives me an idea: prison vouchers. Give each prisoner a voucher for a certain amount and let them choose where they want to serve out their sentence. Prisons will compete to offer tolerably humane conditions to inmates while still keeping under budget. (Prison escapes will be punished by huge fines so there's no incentive to cheap out on security.) Flaws with this system: do prisons have to take a given inmate?…

The ultimate goal of prisons is (or should be) to reduce crime. Why not directly incentivise prisons to reduce recidivism? Pay big bonuses if the ex-inmates aren't arrested/convicted/etc in the 3-5 years after they're released.

[deleted]

Re: Myths of the private prison industry

#25

Post by ionised »

rcurry wrote: post #7

I really don't think prisons should be run by private corporations. I was already kind of leery about it, but the whole "kids for cash" scandal in Pennsylvania was the last straw. There's no way I can be convinced that we can ever trust a for-profit corporation to manage a prison. There are just too many opportunities for corruption.

> There's no way I can be convinced that we can ever trust a for-profit corporation to manage a prison.

I don't think they should be trusted to run anything that constitutes a public service, be it prisons, transport, utilities, health and education.

'For-profit' is the MO of private companies. Service takes a very distant position at the back.

Re: Myths of the private prison industry

#26

Post by dalke »

chimeracoder wrote: post #16
rcurry wrote: post #7

I really don't think prisons should be run by private corporations. I was already kind of leery about it, but the whole "kids for cash" scandal in Pennsylvania was the last straw. There's no way I can be convinced that we can ever trust a for-profit corporation to manage a prison. There are just too many opportunities for corruption.

The problem is that state-funded prisons have the same potential for corruption. The unions that represent the correctional officers play the same role and lobby for the same laws as the private prions do. The CCOA even lists marijuana legalization as a potential risk factor that could impact their future financial targets: > Our ability to secure new contracts to develop and manage correctional and detention facilit…

You are right, they have the same potential.

But there are different organizational issues. Companies can keep more of their operating details private. This makes it harder for the public to investigate a privately run prison than a publicly run prison.

Private jails also add an extra level of finger-pointing, which makes it hard to determine who is ultimately responsible for operational policies. In a locally run prison, it's easy to figure out who is responsible. But if the jail is run by a large company, then "it's policy" becomes a disturbingly frustrating answer, as any follow-up question will be answered with "take it up with corporate".

Some of these organization issues make it more difficult for a publicly run organization than a private on to achieve the same level of corruption.

Re: Myths of the private prison industry

#27

Post by dalke »

nevdka wrote: post #22
hugh4 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That gives me an idea: prison vouchers. Give each prisoner a voucher for a certain amount and let them choose where they want to serve out their sentence. Prisons will compete to offer tolerably humane conditions to inmates while still keeping under budget. (Prison escapes will be punished by huge fines so there's no incentive to cheap out on security.) Flaws with this system: do prisons have to take a given inmate?…

The ultimate goal of prisons is (or should be) to reduce crime. Why not directly incentivise prisons to reduce recidivism? Pay big bonuses if the ex-inmates aren't arrested/convicted/etc in the 3-5 years after they're released.

Or use the money that would go to such a system and instead direct it towards increased social services, to help reduce the number of people who commit crimes and enter the prison system in the first place.

Re: Myths of the private prison industry

#28

Post by testrun »

fredkbloggs wrote: post #13

While I'm not sympathetic to prison operators or the mass-incarceration system in general, this is a weak article with little substance. Declaring an assertion to be myth requires a substantial investment in disproving it. Indeed, there is not a single fact presented in opposition to what is perhaps the most important myth #1. It is possible (or damned well ought to be, and if it isn't, then that's a cause of action…

I agree hundred percent. A very bad piece that does not clarify or enlighten.

Re: Myths of the private prison industry

#29

Post by mindslight »

orangecat wrote: post #14
nosuchthing wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They speak roughly once a week in a 15-minute phone call, and speak for another 25 minutes on a video chat. Jones says she’d travel to Texas to visit her son in person, but Hays County Jail, where he is locked up, banned visitations in November 2013. That happened shortly after the county jail entered into a contract with Securus. Since then, all family communication with inmates at Hays County goes through Securus,…

See also http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/10/inmate-calling-compa... Apparently a large amount of those fees are paid back to the prisons via "commissions", so it's basically governments auctioning off the right to take advantage of prisoners and their families.

It's essentially the same thing that has happened across many other areas of the economy - it's impractical to own slaves, so they're rented instead.

Re: Myths of the private prison industry

#30

Post by zeveb »

wildmusings wrote: post #6
hugh4 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That gives me an idea: prison vouchers. Give each prisoner a voucher for a certain amount and let them choose where they want to serve out their sentence. Prisons will compete to offer tolerably humane conditions to inmates while still keeping under budget. (Prison escapes will be punished by huge fines so there's no incentive to cheap out on security.) Flaws with this system: do prisons have to take a given inmate?…

You're not supposed to like prison. It's a punishment for serious misdeeds. If your suggestion was implemented, the result would be despicable. Prisons would be competing to have the most plush accommodations. The guy who was raping little kids in his van shouldn't serve his time in a nice hotel.

> The guy who was raping little kids in his van shouldn't serve his time in a nice hotel.

He shouldn't live, period: he should go straight from the jail where he was waiting trial, to the gallows. Prison should be for those who are bad enough to remove from society for a time, but not bad enough to execute; and since they will be returned to society, we should try to make sure that when they re-enter it they do so as productive, mentally-well members of society, rather than as beaten, brutalised future recidivists.

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