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Destroy all hiring processes

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21–30 of 104 posts

Re: Destroy all hiring processes

#21

As both an interviewer and interviewee at Weebly, I'm pretty confident in saying I prefer our approach of the trial week. It really gives a great opportunity for the candidate to show off their skills without the on-the-spot pressure of a coding interview. A great side-effect is the candidate gets to determine if they like the team, and vice versa. I honestly wouldn't work somewhere else where I couldn't come in for…

It's very hard to squeeze top talent away from other companies. If they had to make it through a trial week I would say it would be near impossible.

Re: Destroy all hiring processes

#22
"People who have a master’s degree in CS but seemingly can’t code their way out of a paper bag probably actually aren’t bad; more likely they had an education which de-emphasized practical hands-on programming in favor of heavy theory. People who post “please give me the code” questions on mailing lists and forums probably actually aren’t bad; more likely they had an education which was based around memorizing and regurgitating stock answers to stock questions."

What does this even mean? When someone lacks a certain skill, they aren't "bad" in some objective sense, they are misqualified for the job. If someone can't code their way out of a paper bag, should we be hiring them anyway for a programming position because they're not "bad"? What's the point of the interview in the first place? I don't understand the argument.

To the other points, I completely agree there are many ways to screw up interviews and few ways to get them right. I'm still a believer that an interviewer who administers a coding question, one that is reasonably realistic, in both form and the environment the candidate has (ie they have their own laptop) can be a good way to assess someone's skills if you are doing it right. You let them work, let it be a humane environment, and don't get too hung up on the details. Usually if someone can hack it bleeds through pretty clearly, even if they don't get to the exact solution you wanted. (And of course, this is just one data point, that should be distilled into a larger picture of the person's history, accomplishments, etc.)

Re: Destroy all hiring processes

#23
A couple of years back, I was hiring some vendor developers for my team, and since I had some flexibility in the interviews that wouldn't be allowed for full-time employees, I tried an experiment: For one of the vendor candidates, I told him a day ahead of time that I'd be asking him to implement System.Collections.Hashtable in C#, with behavior equivalent to the one in .Net. The day of the interview came, and he whiteboarded it flawlessly, to a degree that I'd never seen any other candidate accomplish, and he was able to have a deep conversation about the implementation and all of its nuances. He then proceeded to bomb the rest of his interviews and didn't get the position. What this illustrates to me is that the typical programmer interview, where we come up with some weird problem and toss it to the candidate while they have no references to look at, no IDE to type into, and a 45 minute deadline looming over their head, is totally divorced from the actual work we actually really want them to do. If I need someone to implement a widget, I'd rather they took some time to research it and do it right, versus trying to crap out a solution in five minutes on a whiteboard.

Re: Destroy all hiring processes

#25

As both an interviewer and interviewee at Weebly, I'm pretty confident in saying I prefer our approach of the trial week. It really gives a great opportunity for the candidate to show off their skills without the on-the-spot pressure of a coding interview. A great side-effect is the candidate gets to determine if they like the team, and vice versa. I honestly wouldn't work somewhere else where I couldn't come in for…

But how do you handle the case that candidates already have a job somewhere else? They can't take a whole week off for this.

I took a week off at my previous job to trial at Weebly. My previous job had a very strict vacation policy, but I knew the importance of what I was doing.

Weebly has an unlimited vacation policy, so, it worked out pretty well.

Re: Destroy all hiring processes

#26

As both an interviewer and interviewee at Weebly, I'm pretty confident in saying I prefer our approach of the trial week. It really gives a great opportunity for the candidate to show off their skills without the on-the-spot pressure of a coding interview. A great side-effect is the candidate gets to determine if they like the team, and vice versa. I honestly wouldn't work somewhere else where I couldn't come in for…

I'm pretty confident in saying I prefer our approach of the trial week.

A full week is pretty close to insane. It means that application is effectively limited to the currently unemployed (or those who are willing to burn what might be all the vacation they can take for months).

That said, it does make pretty clear that Weebly doesn't give a single shit about employee's lives; so it's kind of Weebly to make clear, right out of the gate that they expect to be the only thing that matters in your life.

Re: Destroy all hiring processes

#27
post #15

As both an interviewer and interviewee at Weebly, I'm pretty confident in saying I prefer our approach of the trial week. It really gives a great opportunity for the candidate to show off their skills without the on-the-spot pressure of a coding interview. A great side-effect is the candidate gets to determine if they like the team, and vice versa. I honestly wouldn't work somewhere else where I couldn't come in for…

How would you handle the currently-employed with a such a setup? Having to either give notice or use up a week's worth of vacation days just for an extended interview at a single company sounds like a real horror show from the interviewee end. Contract-to-hire at least gives you a couple months of fairly sure income.

I was employed when I did my trial week at Weebly, and I had to use a week's vacation to do it. Weebly paid for my time, not to mention the trip to SF. Obviously it was worth it to me, but I can see where you're coming from.

Re: Destroy all hiring processes

#28
post #2

> even if we don’t have a sense of ethics we do have a problem of numbers, and more desks and seats and spots than people to fill them I get this a lot, but it is amazingly self-inflicted. Almost all of the random job offers i seem to be getting from people i don't know are from clients who: - underpay - demand on-site only - don't even look at the copious provided code samples, only at the CV The reason for that is…

I left out some of my frustrations simply because there wasn't room for everything and the piece was already getting long. I've also run into the "OK, you got through all the interviews, here's an offer for a contracting slot rather than employment". I've run into impossibly-broad non-compete agreements that I simply can't sign without risking my livelihood if the position doesn't work out. I've run into interviewers who didn't know basic things about the tech they were interviewing me on.

I've also gotten a few speculative recruiters who are just obviously going off a list of auto-slurped email addresses from GitHub and not taking the time to match up positions to skills (including one person who very persistently wanted me to look into a job writing C++ all day).

And on the flip side I've applied speculatively to a few smaller shops that looked like they were doing interesting stuff, only to get the "we think you're overqualified and can't afford you" reply.

Re: Destroy all hiring processes

#29
post #4

I disagree with this. Coding interviews are great. The interviewer needs to realise though that they're not there to be an adversary or a judge, but to help the candidate demonstrate their skills, to help the candidate get the job.

Coding interviews are great if the interviewers are perfectly rational and omnipotent agents. They need to be able to perceive the job, derives the set of abilities that is necessary for it taking into account and predicting future changes. Asking the set of questions that will subsequently narrow down the candidate's ability (while understand the answer, obviously). All the while gauging candidate's "social skill" and "team work" ability, among with any and all trending required characteristics there are. Oh, and you got an hour to do that.

You have 5 interviewers going through the same candidate? Fine, they need to be one-fifth omnipotent.

Good luck with that.

Re: Destroy all hiring processes

#30
post #22

"People who have a master’s degree in CS but seemingly can’t code their way out of a paper bag probably actually aren’t bad; more likely they had an education which de-emphasized practical hands-on programming in favor of heavy theory. People who post “please give me the code” questions on mailing lists and forums probably actually aren’t bad; more likely they had an education which was based around memorizing and re…

I'm just kind of flabbergasted that someone with 6 years of matriculation from Computer Science Program has resulted in the equivalent of a truck driver spending four weeks on Code Academy.

It just doesn't jive...

>I have a philosophy degree, by the way. Not to be smug about it, but several very good people I know and respect in the software field came to it from that background.

Ahh... now it makes sense...

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