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Swedish startup selling North Korean jeans

spiegel.de

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Re: Swedish startup selling North Korean jeans

#11

Post by koevet »

mahmud wrote: post #6
koevet wrote: post #3

Actually, I wonder if more entrepreneurs like those Swedish geeks started to invest in North Korea would initiate a "Chinafication" process of the country.

"Entrepreneurs" are doing brisk business with North Korea, to the tune of billions every year, doing arms deals, chemicals, construction, money laundering, commodities, and what have you. Second to the Chinese, Singapore government officials are deeply tied to the NK regime, for example.

Naturally I was implying some sort of legit investment, such as goods that can be mass produced and sold to the world. It may sound cynical, but a fascination indeed exists with products coming from troubled places. Furthermore, there is a whole commercial philosophy behind supporting developing countries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade

Re: Swedish startup selling North Korean jeans

#12

Post by ilkhd2 »

AlphaMonkey wrote: post #7
koevet wrote: post #3

Actually, I wonder if more entrepreneurs like those Swedish geeks started to invest in North Korea would initiate a "Chinafication" process of the country.

I wondered the same. North Korea is a potential gold mine. Sooner or later, the regime will collapse or open up to capitalism, and when that happens the influx of foreign capital will be enormous. When the labor costs in China become "too high", and when Vietnam is no longer "that cheap", going to NK will be the natural option. Location-wise, NK is right next to Japan, so it's less of a logistic nightmare than, say,…

No, North Korea will not be a gold mine in this case, it would be yet another nail into the coffin of the western world (USA especially) , insanely, hysterically excited about it's own deindustrialization.

Re: Swedish startup selling North Korean jeans

#13

Post by AlphaMonkey »

jsrn wrote: post #9
AlphaMonkey wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weren't some rich Russians willing to pay for the privilege of a pirate-hunting vacation off the coast of Somalia? You're assuming everyone has a conscience, which is an unrealistic assumption.

> Weren't some rich Russians willing to pay for the privilege of a pirate-hunting vacation off the coast of Somalia? No, that was a hoax: http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/piratecruise.asp

Please note that I stated that some people were willing to pay for the privilege of blowing up Somali pirates with heavy weapons. You found evidence that the Russian company selling pirate-hunting vacations was a hoax. I am talking about demand for a gory form of entertainment, you're talking about supply. Hence, you have not defeated my argument.

I personally know people who would pay to shoot pirates with 50-cal machine guns. You'd be amazed at how bored executives at big companies can get...

Re: Swedish startup selling North Korean jeans

#14

Post by ilkhd2 »

koevet wrote: post #11
mahmud wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Entrepreneurs" are doing brisk business with North Korea, to the tune of billions every year, doing arms deals, chemicals, construction, money laundering, commodities, and what have you. Second to the Chinese, Singapore government officials are deeply tied to the NK regime, for example.

Naturally I was implying some sort of legit investment, such as goods that can be mass produced and sold to the world. It may sound cynical, but a fascination indeed exists with products coming from troubled places. Furthermore, there is a whole commercial philosophy behind supporting developing countries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade

If you like products, coming from troubled places I'd recommend to look at American products. USA is a very troubled country. Great inequality, corruption, pollution, crime, wars. Lack of labor law. Infrastructure is falling apart. There is chance the products are by slaves somewher in midwestern states.

Re: Swedish startup selling North Korean jeans

#15

Post by AlphaMonkey »

ilkhd2 wrote: post #10
nazgulnarsil wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't understand. why would people want to own an artifact of human misery?

1) People in USA/Canada/Other western world are _addicted_ to products made in misery (in China, for example). Less miserable of course, but still far from good conditions. 2) If there are reasons to think that it can improve their condition, than it os a good idea.

Very good point. China is only the tip of the iceberg. For example, about 10 years ago, there was a scandal that Nike used slave child labor in Pakistan to manufacture soccer balls.

http://www1.american.edu/TED/nike.htm

Re: Swedish startup selling North Korean jeans

#16

Post by AlphaMonkey »

ilkhd2 wrote: post #12
AlphaMonkey wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wondered the same. North Korea is a potential gold mine. Sooner or later, the regime will collapse or open up to capitalism, and when that happens the influx of foreign capital will be enormous. When the labor costs in China become "too high", and when Vietnam is no longer "that cheap", going to NK will be the natural option. Location-wise, NK is right next to Japan, so it's less of a logistic nightmare than, say,…

No, North Korea will not be a gold mine in this case, it would be yet another nail into the coffin of the western world (USA especially) , insanely, hysterically excited about it's own deindustrialization.

When I mentioned that NK could be a gold mine, what I had in mind was investments like real estate, utilities, land, agricultural commodities. My point would be clear if I had not suggested moving factories there to take advantage of cheap labor. My mistake.

Re: Swedish startup selling North Korean jeans

#17

Post by koevet »

ilkhd2 wrote: post #14
koevet wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naturally I was implying some sort of legit investment, such as goods that can be mass produced and sold to the world. It may sound cynical, but a fascination indeed exists with products coming from troubled places. Furthermore, there is a whole commercial philosophy behind supporting developing countries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade

If you like products, coming from troubled places I'd recommend to look at American products. USA is a very troubled country. Great inequality, corruption, pollution, crime, wars. Lack of labor law. Infrastructure is falling apart. There is chance the products are by slaves somewher in midwestern states.

Sounds like you have never laid a foot on a troubled place.

Re: Swedish startup selling North Korean jeans

#18

Post by ilkhd2 »

AlphaMonkey wrote: post #15
ilkhd2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) People in USA/Canada/Other western world are _addicted_ to products made in misery (in China, for example). Less miserable of course, but still far from good conditions. 2) If there are reasons to think that it can improve their condition, than it os a good idea.

Very good point. China is only the tip of the iceberg. For example, about 10 years ago, there was a scandal that Nike used slave child labor in Pakistan to manufacture soccer balls. http://www1.american.edu/TED/nike.htm

The problem, that USA is _not_ much better in the ways how blue collar workers are treated there. There is a good book "the great squeeze", which talks about misery workers go through working on American industrial facilities. Google Books should have it.

Re: Swedish startup selling North Korean jeans

#19

Post by ilkhd2 »

koevet wrote: post #17
ilkhd2 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you like products, coming from troubled places I'd recommend to look at American products. USA is a very troubled country. Great inequality, corruption, pollution, crime, wars. Lack of labor law. Infrastructure is falling apart. There is chance the products are by slaves somewher in midwestern states.

Sounds like you have never laid a foot on a troubled place.

Sounds like somebody have never been outside downtown San Francisco/Seattle/or whatever and saw real life in USA. I lived in Florida for couple of years, and I never saw (anywhere I had a chance to live) such grotesque contrast between poverty in the inside cities and absurd richness on the oceanfront.

Re: Swedish startup selling North Korean jeans

#20

Post by houseabsolute »

ilkhd2 wrote: post #10
nazgulnarsil wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't understand. why would people want to own an artifact of human misery?

1) People in USA/Canada/Other western world are _addicted_ to products made in misery (in China, for example). Less miserable of course, but still far from good conditions. 2) If there are reasons to think that it can improve their condition, than it os a good idea.

Ridiculous. They are addicted to inexpensive products, nothing else. Few people ever check a label to see where clothes are made.
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