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Estonia's E-Residency Program Is Growing Faster Than Predicted

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Re: Estonia's E-Residency Program Is Growing Faster Than Predicted

#21

Post by briandear »

jdimov9 wrote: post #20
potrebitel22 wrote: post #3

The problem is that in order to operate as a startup, as the whole point of the e-residency is, it's not that easy. Getting a bank account as of end of September is quite hard, border line of impossible. Without a bank account, no startup can be setup properly. Other than that - very good idea and probably the execution will be even better in the near future.

Try opening a bank account in the UK, if you think it's hard in Estonia. Unlike Estonia, you CAN NOT just come to the UK from a foreign country and open a bank account. Even if you've lived here for a while, it's still an unbelievably ridiculous, frustrating and wasteful process. Let's start with having to call the bank weeks or months in advance for an appointment, like everything else in the UK. Even though your ap…

Totally agree. It has been an exceptionally difficult process to open a bank account for my UK company. Ridiculous amount of nonsense. Your point about the money laundering irony is also spot on.

Re: Estonia's E-Residency Program Is Growing Faster Than Predicted

#22

Post by yummyfajitas »

It's worth noting that you can get similar benefits from Singapore.

Singapore doesn't have a cute "E-residency" program, but a foreigner can just pay a local agent and have a corporation opened. Corporate taxes are a clean 17% (lower for small businesses and startups), no dividend taxes, etc.

http://www.guidemesingapore.com/incorporation/company/singap...

http://www.guidemesingapore.com/taxation/corporate-tax/singa...

You also get a fairly stable and well established set of corporate law, which unfortunately Estonia doesn't offer (yet).

The real tricky bit for Americans is how Singapore's tax system (just corporate income tax!) would interact with the US's crazy one (e.g. dividends, capital gains, random other things).

Re: Estonia's E-Residency Program Is Growing Faster Than Predicted

#23

Post by kintamanimatt »

esseti wrote: post #11

Has anyone applied to this? How much is the cost of being an Estonian e-citizen? When i was there i understood there was some cost, roughly < 100 euros. Is every step of the procedure online? or some paperwork has to be done in Estonia (this is was my understanding of last time)

I applied to this. It was a form online, and I paid €50.99 at the time. (€50 for the application fee and a €0.99 charge to cover the cost of paying with a Visa or MasterCard.) It took about twice as long as they promised with my application (although this was just after they'd started online applications), but with a little nudging by email, the package (card, reader, PIN numbers, etc) arrived at the Estonian embassy in London. A signature and some fingerprints, and they handed over the package.

I feel they could have been a little more transparent and clear about what stage my application was at, but overall it was fairly easy.

You don't actually have to go to Estonia to collect the card or do any of the processing in person there anymore. It can be done all online and everything delivered and finalized at your local Estonian embassy or consulate. When the program first started, to apply you had to make a physical appearance in Estonia. You still do to open up a bank account -- for now.

The software does work on Ubuntu. There's poor or no support for other distros IIRC.

I've yet to incorporate or actually use it for any practical purpose, but I expect to in the coming month or so. Estonia is doing some really cool things and it seems to be a decent jurisdiction to run a location-independent business from. I've still got a lot of experience to gain though.

Re: Estonia's E-Residency Program Is Growing Faster Than Predicted

#24

Post by kintamanimatt »

icebraining wrote: post #9
siscia wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are e-citizen in estonia you can easily open a company there. Taxation in estonia is pretty nice since basically the only tax you pay is when you pull money out of the company, not when you sell something, as long as the money are inside the company you don't own anything. (Of course is a little bit more complex that this, but here is the idea, you need to pay tax if you have employee for example)

Well, you also pay VAT when you sell something. You just don't pay corporate taxes.

IIRC you pay corporate taxes when the profits are distributed, but aren't taxed so long as you keep them in the business.

Re: Estonia's E-Residency Program Is Growing Faster Than Predicted

#25

Post by MortenK »

icebraining wrote: post #18
3pt14159 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this considered hard? A date flexible return flight from Toronto is $935 ($725 USD). Compared to what a developer can make in really any Western country, I don't really see what the issue is.

Compared to what a developer can make in really any Western country. In my Western European country, we make less than $20k/y on average, so that is kind of high (~ 2 months' rent) for developers on the lower end of the scale. I'm not arguing against you, just pointing out that salaries for devs are very variable even in the Western countries.

What country are you in?

Re: Estonia's E-Residency Program Is Growing Faster Than Predicted

#26

Post by amazon_not »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #22

It's worth noting that you can get similar benefits from Singapore. Singapore doesn't have a cute "E-residency" program, but a foreigner can just pay a local agent and have a corporation opened. Corporate taxes are a clean 17% (lower for small businesses and startups), no dividend taxes, etc. http://www.guidemesingapore.com/incorporation/company/singap... http://www.guidemesingapore.com/taxation/corporate-tax/singa..…

Estonia benefits from not taxing profits. So if you invest your profits into the company or just keep the cash in the company there is not tax. Distributed profits are taxed at 20%.

Depending on what you do this may benefit you and makes deferring taxation indefinitely trivial.

Re: Estonia's E-Residency Program Is Growing Faster Than Predicted

#28

Post by speeq »

jdimov9 wrote: post #20
potrebitel22 wrote: post #3

The problem is that in order to operate as a startup, as the whole point of the e-residency is, it's not that easy. Getting a bank account as of end of September is quite hard, border line of impossible. Without a bank account, no startup can be setup properly. Other than that - very good idea and probably the execution will be even better in the near future.

Try opening a bank account in the UK, if you think it's hard in Estonia. Unlike Estonia, you CAN NOT just come to the UK from a foreign country and open a bank account. Even if you've lived here for a while, it's still an unbelievably ridiculous, frustrating and wasteful process. Let's start with having to call the bank weeks or months in advance for an appointment, like everything else in the UK. Even though your ap…

I moved to the UK from a foreign country (from the EU though) and found it quite easy to start my company and open my accounts.

It really depends on the bank and branch you're walking into. My advice: Avoid doing what I did and don't apply for your first current account online. It might seem more efficient and time-saving but it's actually not - because of your non-existent credit history in the UK - they will have to ask you for endless documents.

Once you're in the UK, walk into a high-street bank that is actively seeking customers. Lloyds Bank or Barclays comes to mind. Ask for a basic bank account, which they will open for you without proof of address. Make an appointment with the same bank for a startup current account - sometimes they will send you to a different branch - if they don't do business banking themselves.

They will ask you about your business and estimated turnover. Make sure you bring your incorporation documents.

It's worth noting that I'm the only director of my limited company and the companies registered office was my home address - so no further proofs of address were required.

Waiting for your cards to arrive in the mail is what takes the most time, but I was able to use my online banking account even before I had my card.

Re: Estonia's E-Residency Program Is Growing Faster Than Predicted

#29

Post by moonchrome »

icebraining wrote: post #18
3pt14159 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this considered hard? A date flexible return flight from Toronto is $935 ($725 USD). Compared to what a developer can make in really any Western country, I don't really see what the issue is.

Compared to what a developer can make in really any Western country. In my Western European country, we make less than $20k/y on average, so that is kind of high (~ 2 months' rent) for developers on the lower end of the scale. I'm not arguing against you, just pointing out that salaries for devs are very variable even in the Western countries.

>In my Western European country

He quoted you a price from Toronto. You can probably find Ryan air for under 200€ roundtrip - bigger problem will be that you'll probably spend 2 days on it.

Also 20k $/year as a developer ?! You earn more in Eastern Europe unless you're a PHP "developer" or something like that.

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