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The Lonely Death of George Bell

nytimes.com

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Re: The Lonely Death of George Bell

#31

Post by sridca »

cousin_it wrote: post #10

We need a society where every person is needed and wanted. We need it more than any dumb technical advance that lessens the need for people, like robots delivering pizza or whatever. That will take some heavy thinking, though, and I feel that we haven't even started.

> We need a society where every person is needed and wanted.

I'd rather live in a society where every person was self-sufficiently mirthful, with people-interaction being little more than the cherry on top of sundae.

This is what individualism was originally meant to be, but people continue to undermine the power of instinctual passions (acknowledging something is the first step to eradicating it).

Re: The Lonely Death of George Bell

#32

Post by gammafactor »

sridca wrote: post #28
gammafactor wrote: post #8

I never understood this stigma about hermits/social isolation in western societies. In the east, it's much more accepted. Reading this piece I got the impression that the writer and persons interviewed were HORRIFIED by what they discovered. It seemed to me as if "having friends" was pretty fucking high in their list-of-important-things-in-life. I was very amused by this, almost started laughing in fact. Human relati…

> I never understood this stigma about hermits/social isolation in western societies. In the east, it's much more accepted. In east it is much more accepted? Where exactly in the east? At least from where I come from (southern state in India), being a loner -- especially a loner male -- is seen to be socially unworthy. I know one male relative, that had been divorced and never married since then, who is generally loo…

I'm chinese and was mostly referring to my country. I know there are places like Japan and maybe as you said India where this does not apply.

EDIT:

It's also funny that you mentioned the spiritual angle.

I've studied Advaita for many years (and still practice it) and there is something to be said about the various holy men who practice it. In the case of Nisargadatta, for instance, he had a wife and kids that he immediately abandoned once he met sri sadguru sidarameshwar maharaj and fully commited to that path.

If you read his books (highly recommended) you will discover a man that lives in absolute bliss. It's like a huge weight has been lifted off of his shoulders, and I don't just mean his family (more like the burden of having to interact with society at large).

It's interesting to me how this is "accepted" in India but a person acting in exactly the same ways minus the spiritual angle is treated far differently. If that is not social conditioning I don't know what is.

Re: The Lonely Death of George Bell

#34

Post by omarchowdhury »

gammafactor wrote: post #27
omarchowdhury wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liking and disliking are not the only choices. I'm saying to see the world the way it is. Also, would you say your refuge in algorithms is your way of trying to control your reality? Algorithms are straight forward and predictable, unlike people. Thoughts?

Don't assume things about me (this is another tendency that "people" have :-) From an early age, I found contemporary "people" uninteresting to extremely dull. I had to force myself to socialize with them in order not to become a premature social pariah. It's a lot easier these days. I'm mostly talking about your average human by the way, not the sum total of humanity. To give you an example, I enjoy Nietzsche's (ano…

If I was assuming I would be making statements, not questions. I was pointing out the mirror image between how algorithms behave and how people behave.

Though I find it ironic, because you yourself are assuming about other people with this:

are you going to keep wasting this precious commodity in pursuit of other, "human" relationships or will you finally be able to fully devote yourself to whatever it is that you know, deep down, is your true calling in life?

As if people are not able to have fulfilling human relationships AND devote themselves to a calling. As if everyone is wasting their time, because you think it's a waste of time. If it's a waste of time because people fail in their pursuits, well guess what, no pursuit is guaranteed.

This talk about robots is just the sign of the times: the mechanization of everything, even that which is not fundamentally mechanical.

Re: The Lonely Death of George Bell

#35

Post by armitron »

omarchowdhury wrote: post #34
gammafactor wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't assume things about me (this is another tendency that "people" have :-) From an early age, I found contemporary "people" uninteresting to extremely dull. I had to force myself to socialize with them in order not to become a premature social pariah. It's a lot easier these days. I'm mostly talking about your average human by the way, not the sum total of humanity. To give you an example, I enjoy Nietzsche's (ano…

If I was assuming I would be making statements, not questions. I was pointing out the mirror image between how algorithms behave and how people behave. Though I find it ironic, because you yourself are assuming about other people with this: are you going to keep wasting this precious commodity in pursuit of other, "human" relationships or will you finally be able to fully devote yourself to whatever it is that you kn…

You either are not paying attention to what he wrote or, alternatively, "fully devoted" doesn't mean the same to you as it does to him (and me).

BTW: Everything is fundamentally mechanical, you should check out Norbert Wiener.

Re: The Lonely Death of George Bell

#37

Post by sridca »

gammafactor wrote: post #32
sridca wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never understood this stigma about hermits/social isolation in western societies. In the east, it's much more accepted. In east it is much more accepted? Where exactly in the east? At least from where I come from (southern state in India), being a loner -- especially a loner male -- is seen to be socially unworthy. I know one male relative, that had been divorced and never married since then, who is generally loo…

I'm chinese and was mostly referring to my country. I know there are places like Japan and maybe as you said India where this does not apply. EDIT: It's also funny that you mentioned the spiritual angle. I've studied Advaita for many years (and still practice it) and there is something to be said about the various holy men who practice it. In the case of Nisargadatta, for instance, he had a wife and kids that he imme…

People rarely acknowledge that a significant portion of their identity is a result of social conditioning (or indoctrination as you bluntly put it in another comment).

The act of seeking of approval, in particular, is the persistently amorphous result of a society shaping/ strengthening/ controlling the underlying instinctual passions (of fear and desire and nurture) over decades. Most people even in individualistic societies will fight to death their right to defend their internalizing of this brainwashing.

You may notice that a lot of spiritual beliefs too fall under the similar umbrella. If not, I invite you to this rabbit hole: http://www.actualfreedom.com.au

Re: The Lonely Death of George Bell

#38

Post by camkego »

gammafactor wrote: post #32
sridca wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never understood this stigma about hermits/social isolation in western societies. In the east, it's much more accepted. In east it is much more accepted? Where exactly in the east? At least from where I come from (southern state in India), being a loner -- especially a loner male -- is seen to be socially unworthy. I know one male relative, that had been divorced and never married since then, who is generally loo…

I'm chinese and was mostly referring to my country. I know there are places like Japan and maybe as you said India where this does not apply. EDIT: It's also funny that you mentioned the spiritual angle. I've studied Advaita for many years (and still practice it) and there is something to be said about the various holy men who practice it. In the case of Nisargadatta, for instance, he had a wife and kids that he imme…

He returned to his wife and kids after 1-2 years.

Re: The Lonely Death of George Bell

#39

Post by prophet_ »

hitekker wrote: post #6

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodokushi is the Japanese name for this phenomena. There were several articles about it a few months back, like: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/roads/2015/0... http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/in-japan-lone... http://qz.com/380685/photos-cleaning-up-after-japans-lonely-... They say you mentally breakup with your spouse/partner some time before before actual…

“The majority of lonely deaths are people who are kind of messy,”

The need for instant gratification is a constant for those affected by major depression. This may come across as "messy" when in reality severely depressed people would skip anything that does not directly improve their mood.

As despair takes over and one cannot find light at the end of the tunnel, the search for this light or simply giving up becomes the main thing whereas everything else becomes irrelevant.

I'm no psychologist but could not help noticing this kind of behaviour over the years in many cases of depression, suicides, etc.

Re: The Lonely Death of George Bell

#40

Post by slicktux »

This was somewhat of a depressing story; mainly because emphasis was put on the whole after death scenario; that is what happened to his belongings et cetera, et cetera... But overall, I feel like I understand Bell, as well as the circumstances that lead to him dying lonely... RIP Bell Nothing more Nothing less
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