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The Hostile Email Landscape

liminality.xyz

31–40 of 251 posts

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#31

Create an email network where is would cost a penny to send email. It would be payed into bitcoin wallet of folks maintaining infrastructure. Every email would be digitally signed and encrypted. Certificate with keys would connected to email address (and bitcoin wallet). Spam would die. Go build it please.

I think that is an interesting idea, but my first reaction is that it wouldn't end spam. In the US there is a much larger cost associated with sending physical spam in the US (stamps). But there seems to be unlimited physical spam still.

Maybe it would just become more targeted?

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#32

Create an email network where is would cost a penny to send email. It would be payed into bitcoin wallet of folks maintaining infrastructure. Every email would be digitally signed and encrypted. Certificate with keys would connected to email address (and bitcoin wallet). Spam would die. Go build it please.

[deleted]

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#33
My experience has been that sending from my server works fine if it's in DNS and RDNS. Sending in that server's name works fine if the SPF records are present. But I don't bulk send; everything I send is something I typed, other than some messages the server sends to me periodically.

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#34
>This isn't how the internet is supposed to work.

The email architecture was started back when it was a smaller network of researchers at universities, governments, etc. Everybody basically trusted each other.

Once the "internet" is available to the general public and commercial interests, it becomes vulnerable to the "bad actors" problem (e.g. spam abuse). That's why we have the inevitable situation today of a few entities (e.g. gmail, hotmail) being "trusted", and random residential SMTP servers run by homeowners being "untrusted".

I haven't seen a realistic de-centralized trust proposal for email. Even if a proposal is theoretically sound, what incentive is there for other big players to adopt it?

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#35

Perhaps the problem here is that there is no verified identity for email servers?

There is - this is effectively what DKIM does. Reputation systems calculate reputations over email server identities, not email sender identities (subtle distinction).

Yes true, there is SPF and DKIM which are used by the big providers, though I'm not sure how strongly they trust those, but they shouldn't be using IP as a signal to determine whether the server is legitimate, or it leads to the catch 22 this article talks about - unknown IP = SPAM.

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#36
post #16

I've run into similar issues with a similar setup. It's frustrating. You can convince gmail user A to whitelist your messages, and so they'll get through to user A, but gmail user B probably still won't see messages from you unless you tell him to dig them out of the spam trap. And your messages to A might still be classified as spam if they have attachments or hyperlinks in them. (Even if you've been corresponding w…

The email deliverability issues we have had as a legitimate business are insane. Moving to an ESP years ago has helped, but it's far from perfect. I've wondered how a small business without the tech resources could manage this.

For instance, several months back some of our account holders suddenly stopped receiving important account info as well as newsletters from us. Tracked it down to a third party filtering service used by various email providers. Contacted them and they indicated that we were sending to honeypot addresses and/or doing other things that landed us on their list. We refuted all of their assertions (all of our recipients are double out-in, etc.) But , they insisted, as if their processes were infallible and refused to remove us.

Here they were, a third party with whom we had no agreement, yet they were interfering with our ability to do business (and profiting from it). We also had paid advertising in the newsletters per agreements with advertisers. Consulted counsel and the next step was to send a cease and desist, followed by an injunction on the grounds of tortious interference. Then, just as suddenly, our emails started going through again.

So, all of this, just to send email.

Yet, I still have to deal with a ton of spam personally when wading through my quarantine folder for routine false positives. Current processes are harder on the good guys than the spammers.

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#37
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"3 and 4 would require a sort of token system" Not to get all handwavey, but I think this is why some people are super excited about bitcoin becoming 'part of the internet'. There are definitely some areas where we need a concept of identity & trust, and bitcoin seems like one of the first truly distributed ways of doing it.

The thing is while the Internet is all excited about bitcoin, everyone else has (kind of) stopped using e-mail for communication. It's all phone based now. E-mail is just for the things that doesn't have an app. And maybe resetting your password. Unfortunately, the "geek" age is out in favor of the startup age.

That may be the case for personal communications (well, not me, I am old school) but I don't think it the case at all for professional communications.

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#38

This guys story is a sad one but I'm sure we're missing some important information here. New mail servers get set up all the time, it's not impossible for such servers to be accepted by the big players. If none of these major services ever learned that his server was OK, it's likely that users weren't unmarking the mail he sent as spam. And that leads to the question of why not.

In general, everybody uses a service like MailChimp or SendGrid to do this. That allows them to send email, but keeps them from building up a good reputation for no spam on their IP addresses -- that reputation is built by the email provider, not by you as the customer. For awhile I wondered why so many SaaS apps bothered to pay external (not cheap!) mail services when it's so easy to set up an email server. This is…

sadly, it's even hard to get some email across when using those ESPs (Email Service Providers).

Our domain has all the correct SPF records, DKIM etc and we're using a reputable email provider (Mandrill). All is sparking clean. Validated etc. Still we see some activation emails to google get delivered, but severely delayed on the Google side (after we see an OK from google for the email being delivered). Our users can't reset their password or activate their account until a certain time passes...

Emails from my mum (who I've emailed on the same account for nearly a decade) suddenly get flagged as spam by gmail. Go figure.

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#39

Create an email network where is would cost a penny to send email. It would be payed into bitcoin wallet of folks maintaining infrastructure. Every email would be digitally signed and encrypted. Certificate with keys would connected to email address (and bitcoin wallet). Spam would die. Go build it please.

Please read

http://craphound.com/spamsolutions.txt

and check all boxes that apply.

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#40
I have self-hosted my mailserver for a long time and started to get problems a couple of years ago. The main issue is corporate networks running McAfee's "MxLogic" product that claim to bounce my mail and tell me so, but then go on to deliver it almost all the time.

The difficulty in getting feedback is extremely frustrating, particularly compared with getting feedback from, eg, google's webcrawlers.

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