Live data from Hacker News

Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

washingtonpost.com

141–150 of 197 posts

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#141

You know what. Those parents got those kids into Stanford. Obviously helicopter parenting is working for them. 90% of the decisions people make are based on the environments they are in. Today's environment is extremely competitive and the margin for error is lower. Nobody wants to be the parent of the most mentally stable Starbucks Barista... Get them into Stanford, then they have the rest of their life to "fail"

> Those parents got those kids into Stanford. Correlation/causation fail. The worst part of parents functioning this way is that they assume they are dictating results.

If it didn't work, this former Dean wouldn't be complaining about it.

I see her complaints as more sinister. She comes from a privileged background, and she's concerned that people from her social class are getting pushed out of her university by kids whose parents made them work hard.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#142

Perhaps obviously I resonant with her message, not letting your kids stand on their own, gives them weak legs. But as a parent I am viscerally aware of how hard it is to watch your child make bad choices. From the parents perspective looking backwards through time they "see" how something today will have huge repurcussions later. Nobody can stand by and watch their child turn down a dark alley filled with hazards. So…

Which is why it's important to build that trust with your kid early on. The longer parent wait with letting go of their fear of any harm to their kid the more damage they potentially inflict on them later on.

Just like in the entpreneurial world. Making mistakes when you are young is much safer than later on in life.

But yes as a parent I understand exactly what you are saying.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#143

Perhaps obviously I resonant with her message, not letting your kids stand on their own, gives them weak legs. But as a parent I am viscerally aware of how hard it is to watch your child make bad choices. From the parents perspective looking backwards through time they "see" how something today will have huge repurcussions later. Nobody can stand by and watch their child turn down a dark alley filled with hazards. So…

> From the parents perspective looking backwards through time they "see" how something today will have huge repurcussions later. Nobody can stand by and watch their child turn down a dark alley filled with hazards.

> As kids get older their ability to completely screw up their life goes up exponentially.

If one reconciles those two points one can see that a lot of what parents obsess about is without any real consequences. An example of utterly irrelevant worry is breaking an arm as a kid - it will hurt for a while, but you'll be fine. Nothing one can't recover from. As you note, it's important to let a kid fail and learn from that failure.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#144
Just went through the whole application & admissions process with my older daughter. It was horrible. It's a mess. It's sinister in the way it affected our family.

Pursuing a high school diploma should start with an exploration of:

- "What am I good at, really?"

- "What do I love, really?"

- "What matters to me, really?"

But what we saw all through high school was simply:

- "What can I do today that will improve my chances of getting into Harvard?"

Humans are prone to wanting the wrong things, and especially so when misperceptions lead us to believe they are the right things. I don't know how to ultimately fix the college-chasing-helicopter-parenting-test-prepping-personality-skewing of today's admissions process, but I've started by reinforcing to my younger daughter that what matters is her, not the the university she goes to.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#145
post #131
post #13

The idea that "today's youth" are more fragile than the youth of yore seems to be a growing meme. I do believe that there is a rise in mental health issues among young adults, but there are many potentially interacting causes. I haven't read the book in question, but I hope that anyone who tackles this subject addresses all the possibly relevant social phenomena before pinning it all on one root cause. Some things I…

Economics isn't responsible for lack of resilience. There have been plenty of severe economic climates before, and we haven't seen the same issues from those. Having all your money go on shelter and food, and having to share housing... these things are not new . They're also seen all over the world right now. It's really not harsh economics - more likely it is the lack of resilience from things like helicopter parent…

>There have been plenty of severe economic climates before, and we haven't seen the same issues from those.

And there was a lot more poverty then than we have now. There also wasn't the widespread expectation of having a "good life," and probably a much smaller pre-existing middle class all attempting to hang onto their position. Furthermore, the whole notion of "middle class" and all the expectations that come with it probably weren't as firmly rooted as they are now, so people just... expected less.

>Climate change wasn't the issue back in the 80s - instead it was things like Mutually Assured Destruction. There's always something. We need to stop making excuses like "it's current affairs issue X".

Just saying "there are bad things now and there were bad things then" does not mean that circumstances are always equally good or bad. The economic/social/political climate CAN be better or worse at different times. Life was certainly very hard for the generations living through the great depression or WW2, and the burdens those people carried should not be diminished by people living in more fortuitous times.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#146
I know at least one recent graduate of Stanford University who is an exception to this generalization. He is a childhood friend of my oldest son's, and graduated with Stanford class of 2013. If the general observation at Stanford is that Stanford students are highly dependent on their parents and unable to take care of themselves (as it may be, for all I know), then all I can say is that Stanford has an unusual intake of admitted students. For information on "a generation of children," I'd ask college officials at community colleges and military officers who deal with new recruits, as well as big employers of first-time employees. (What employer employs a lot of first-time members of the labor force these days? McDonald's? Some other kind of employer?).

This article sparked a lot of discussion among my friends on Facebook, where I shared it after reading the article from the submission here. A friend there commented, "I am so tired of colleges and universities whining about the students they chose to admit. Maybe they need to take a look at their admissions policies." Yes, I think college admission officers, especially at the most selective colleges, have to grow up and take their own responsibility for the incentives that their admission requirements set up. I note as a teacher at a private school that students today can certainly have issues of overdependence on others as they face life challenges. That has probably existed in all previous generations of students. The way to change the incentives, of course, is for admission officers to figure out reliable signals of life independence as they decide whom to admit. Parents will get that message loud and clear if admission officers figure out the reliable signals. Meanwhile, it is always permitted for parents (although sometimes difficult for parents to achieve) to encourage young people to develop self-reliance and independence as they grow up. That is what I have attempted to do as I homeschooled my four children, two of whom are now quite self-reliant adults, and two of whom are now very responsible adolescents who are well regarded by other adults who know them.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#147
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Margin of error: go to Stanford, make the right connections, become a billionaire in 8 years versus go to a state school and work for the billionaires while making 1/5000th to 1/150000th as much as they do, yet you're doing all the work that makes them richer.

Stanford has 27 billionaire alumni. At any given time, there are ~15,000 students studying at Stanford. Getting the top 10 schools for creating billionaires, it accounts for 206 total. (Though this number also includes Cambridge, and I'm not sure if the 11 billionaire alumni from there are part of the same 500ish US billionaires) Out of the 500ish billionaires in the US, nearly 100 of them have no degree at all. So,…

nearly 100 of them have no degree at all.

Because many of them dropped/stopped out of Stanford after being accepted.

You can ask the same of NYC. How many supreme court justices are from NYC versus Idaho? Location matters. Location changes you. Peers change you.

relatively small sample size

Outliers can't be analyzed using aggregate methods. Powerlawpeople.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#148
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think one can make up for freedom lost during childhood? Our brains become rather rigid as we get older. One axiom for success is that it requires a thousand failures. Learning how to cope with failure is arguably the most important thing you can teach a child. And personally, I'd be proud to be the parent of the world's most mentally stable barista because life is about more than status.

Honestly? > What makes you think one can make up for freedom lost during childhood? Our brains become rather rigid as we get older. If this was true in a practical sense, we'd have the government raising up kids, because parents pose too much a risk of producing a suboptimal generation. > And personally, I'd be proud to be the parent of the world's most mentally stable barista because life is about more than status.…

[deleted]

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#149
post #90

Dean complains about helicopter parents at Stanford and yet admissions essentially requires incoming students have helicopter parents. To get into a school like this you need to be exclusively focused on exactly the arbitrary criteria that will get you accepted into a school like this -- grades in the "right" classes, enough sports to talk about it in an essay but not too much, extracurricular and volunteer work at t…

No teenager has a passion for SAT prep.

I grew up in the generation when no one in my region of the country (the Midwest) had heard of test prep. The students who did best on standardized tests (my friends and I) simply enjoyed reading for fun. Really, it's that simple. Read books and articles that are not assigned by school and that you choose for your own reading pleasure. Students who score high today on standardized tests are still avid readers. Nothing has changed about that at all. This even works for the math section of the tests.

To learn how to score well on a standardized test reading section, the number one piece of advice is READ, READ, READ, and READ. Read about what you like to know more about. Read things that are fun for you. Find books and magazines about interesting topics and read them. Turn off the TV and read. Put away the video game controller and read. Read hard things, and read easy things. Read a lot.

For years, I wondered why it came so readily to mind to write "READ, READ, READ" in all capital letters like that when I give advice on this subject, as I have frequent occasion to do. Recently, I reread the section "Suggestions for Study" in the front matter of John DeFrancis's book Beginning Chinese Reader, Part I, which I first used to learn Chinese back in 1975. In that section of that book, I found this passage, "Fluency in reading can only be achieved by extensive practice on all the interrelated aspects of the reading process. To accomplish this we must READ, READ, READ" (capitalization as in original). Yes, that works for Chinese, and it works for English too. By practicing reading, you gain reading comprehension and reading speed, and speedy reading with good comprehension gives you time to complete standardized test sections with time to spare. That reduces the pressure and lets you relax and think while you take the test. Try it. You may like it, and anyway reading is fun.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#150
So how many students get into Stanford with the attestation that their parent's didn't helicopter parent them? I challenge every student to put as their first sentence on their essays, "I am not the product of helicopter parenting." followed by a list of all their accomplishments, goals, and dreams and see if it gets them into $top_school.
Post reply on HN