Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation • Hacker News Board

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#121

Post by BurningFrog » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 5:18 PM UTC

TelmoMenezes wrote: post #48

supercanuck wrote: post #14

You know what. Those parents got those kids into Stanford. Obviously helicopter parenting is working for them. 90% of the decisions people make are based on the environments they are in. Today's environment is extremely competitive and the margin for error is lower. Nobody wants to be the parent of the most mentally stable Starbucks Barista... Get them into Stanford, then they have the rest of their life to "fail"

> Today's environment is extremely competitive and the margin for error is lower. The margin for error is enormous, compared to previous generations. The probability that a mistake in life will lead you to die of starvation or cold is smaller than ever. What I think is happening is that global communication is leading to increased status neurosis. Before, you could compare your kids to the neighbors'. Now you can com…

> Before, you could compare your kids to the neighbors'. Now you can compare them with everyone's kids, filtered through the lens of social media.

This is also a big factor in the "impossible beauty standards" syndrome.

Being the prettiest girl in the village was tough but humanly possible. Competing against photoshopped versions of the most attractive women on the planet is not.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#122

Post by benp84 » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 5:20 PM UTC

smtddr wrote: post #46

supercanuck wrote: post #14

You know what. Those parents got those kids into Stanford. Obviously helicopter parenting is working for them. 90% of the decisions people make are based on the environments they are in. Today's environment is extremely competitive and the margin for error is lower. Nobody wants to be the parent of the most mentally stable Starbucks Barista... Get them into Stanford, then they have the rest of their life to "fail"

>>Nobody wants to be the parent of the most mentally stable Starbucks Barista... Get them into Stanford, then they have the rest of their life to "fail" What a terribly insulting thing to say. Arrogance at its peak.

I'm pretty sure it was a comment on the state of the education environment, not a personal opinion.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#123

Post by cthalupa » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 5:20 PM UTC

supercanuck wrote: post #14

You know what. Those parents got those kids into Stanford. Obviously helicopter parenting is working for them. 90% of the decisions people make are based on the environments they are in. Today's environment is extremely competitive and the margin for error is lower. Nobody wants to be the parent of the most mentally stable Starbucks Barista... Get them into Stanford, then they have the rest of their life to "fail"

>You know what. Those parents got those kids into Stanford. Obviously helicopter parenting is working for them.

Is getting kids into Stanford the end goal? If it is, that's pretty short sighted. Congratulations! You got into Stanford. Now what?

Going to a top tier school is not the end. You don't win the moment you get accepted. College is the start of your adult life (or usually - based on this article perhaps some of the students are still in the childhood phase...), and where huge amounts of your actions and decisions start to have real and lasting consequences.

> Nobody wants to be the parent of the most mentally stable Starbucks Barista... Get them into Stanford, then they have the rest of their life to "fail"

I would take a well adjust, mentally stable, happy kid working a non-prestigious job than one that is unstable, depressed, etc. with a good one. Because, you know what? When you fail to raise an adult, even if they get to Stanford, a lot of them are not going to be good at jobs that require responsibility and personal judgment.

This sort of short sighted idea that getting a kid to a good school is winning and anything less means you're relegated to baristahood is ridiculous. Even ignoring the fact that a college degree is not a requirement for success in life, there are multitudes of schools that will give you the proper education needed to succeed in a field that does require college without the insane demands of Stanford, et al.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#124

Post by Thriptic » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 5:20 PM UTC

zkhalique wrote: post #116

klunger wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. It is like that old adage, "Behind every great man, there is a great woman." For the modern era, it should perhaps now be, "behind every top-tier university student, there is a helicopter parent". It takes so much to get into one of these schools now that it seems impossible for any child without extensive support.

Perhaps, following sentiments of Peter Thiel and others, it's not necessary to get into an elite school today, in order to succeed. If it was, then good education and success would still be scarce in today's world, as most people can't afford to go to Harvard, Stanford, etc. Now we have MOOCs an schools can become centers for socializing, tutoring and testing. A great teacher can educate more than 300 people a year t…

It's never been necessary to go to an elite school to be successful; it's simply much easier to get your foot in the door with employers if you have the words "MIT" or "Stanford" on your resume as opposed to "Coursera" or some random college. Moreover, employers COME TO YOU if you are at these institutions, you don't need to go out and beg for face time.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#125

Post by lemevi » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 5:21 PM UTC

zkhalique wrote: post #116

klunger wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. It is like that old adage, "Behind every great man, there is a great woman." For the modern era, it should perhaps now be, "behind every top-tier university student, there is a helicopter parent". It takes so much to get into one of these schools now that it seems impossible for any child without extensive support.

Perhaps, following sentiments of Peter Thiel and others, it's not necessary to get into an elite school today, in order to succeed. If it was, then good education and success would still be scarce in today's world, as most people can't afford to go to Harvard, Stanford, etc. Now we have MOOCs an schools can become centers for socializing, tutoring and testing. A great teacher can educate more than 300 people a year t…

This is nonsense. Getting into elite schools opens up doors that are otherwise completely shut. At law firms, at prestigious graduate schools, in academia, in medical schools and good positions at top corporations. Every year information is collected on the various success rates for students coming out of America's universities and students from elite school make up the highest paying and most successful members of our society. This is as true now as it was twenty years ago.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#126

Post by dawson » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 5:22 PM UTC

lemmsjid wrote: post #61

supercanuck wrote: post #14

You know what. Those parents got those kids into Stanford. Obviously helicopter parenting is working for them. 90% of the decisions people make are based on the environments they are in. Today's environment is extremely competitive and the margin for error is lower. Nobody wants to be the parent of the most mentally stable Starbucks Barista... Get them into Stanford, then they have the rest of their life to "fail"

As a parent, I would a thousand times rather my child be a mentally stable barista than a questionably stable Stanford student. In fact, having recently interacted with the Standard undergraduate body, I feel quite sorry for most of them because it's such a terrible pressure cooker stress environment. My primary goal for my child is for her to be a whole person. If she can do that at Stanford, fine. If she can do tha…

There are plenty of depressed baristas too.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#127

Post by jschwartzi » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 5:22 PM UTC

r0naa wrote: post #74

supercanuck wrote: post #14

You know what. Those parents got those kids into Stanford. Obviously helicopter parenting is working for them. 90% of the decisions people make are based on the environments they are in. Today's environment is extremely competitive and the margin for error is lower. Nobody wants to be the parent of the most mentally stable Starbucks Barista... Get them into Stanford, then they have the rest of their life to "fail"

I am so grateful to my parents for putting so much trust in me while I was seemingly going out of control during my teenage years. Seriously, it took me years but I now realize how much self-control and discipline it took them to stick to their philosophy and let me explore things on my own. I come from a very middle class background, but I had the chance to experience a lot of things. Some I regret, some I don't. Bu…

My parents were the same way, but I'm glad they forced me to go to college, at least. At the time it felt like a waste of time, and I had to take a job clerking in a warehouse when I got out because there were no jobs, but I was lucky to have met the person who got me that job, because within four years I was an engineer. I couldn't have done that without an education and a ton of luck.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#128

Post by ThomPete » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 5:23 PM UTC

lemevi wrote: post #125

zkhalique wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, following sentiments of Peter Thiel and others, it's not necessary to get into an elite school today, in order to succeed. If it was, then good education and success would still be scarce in today's world, as most people can't afford to go to Harvard, Stanford, etc. Now we have MOOCs an schools can become centers for socializing, tutoring and testing. A great teacher can educate more than 300 people a year t…

This is nonsense. Getting into elite schools opens up doors that are otherwise completely shut. At law firms, at prestigious graduate schools, in academia, in medical schools and good positions at top corporations. Every year information is collected on the various success rates for students coming out of America's universities and students from elite school make up the highest paying and most successful members of o…

All areas that are going to be increasingly disrupted by technology and digitalization. So sure for now but this will change.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#129

Post by laichzeit0 » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 5:25 PM UTC

zkhalique wrote: post #116

klunger wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. It is like that old adage, "Behind every great man, there is a great woman." For the modern era, it should perhaps now be, "behind every top-tier university student, there is a helicopter parent". It takes so much to get into one of these schools now that it seems impossible for any child without extensive support.

Perhaps, following sentiments of Peter Thiel and others, it's not necessary to get into an elite school today, in order to succeed. If it was, then good education and success would still be scarce in today's world, as most people can't afford to go to Harvard, Stanford, etc. Now we have MOOCs an schools can become centers for socializing, tutoring and testing. A great teacher can educate more than 300 people a year t…

The only problem with MOOCS is you can't be an engineer or a medical doctor by only doing the courses you're "interested in".

IT is one of the few "fields" where people can get away with a half assed academic background and the end product shows it.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#130

Post by TeMPOraL » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 5:27 PM UTC

gdubs wrote: post #117

supercanuck wrote: post #14

You know what. Those parents got those kids into Stanford. Obviously helicopter parenting is working for them. 90% of the decisions people make are based on the environments they are in. Today's environment is extremely competitive and the margin for error is lower. Nobody wants to be the parent of the most mentally stable Starbucks Barista... Get them into Stanford, then they have the rest of their life to "fail"

What makes you think one can make up for freedom lost during childhood? Our brains become rather rigid as we get older. One axiom for success is that it requires a thousand failures. Learning how to cope with failure is arguably the most important thing you can teach a child. And personally, I'd be proud to be the parent of the world's most mentally stable barista because life is about more than status.

Honestly?

> What makes you think one can make up for freedom lost during childhood? Our brains become rather rigid as we get older.

If this was true in a practical sense, we'd have the government raising up kids, because parents pose too much a risk of producing a suboptimal generation.

> And personally, I'd be proud to be the parent of the world's most mentally stable barista because life is about more than status.

That's what those of us who didn't get to the top spots like to tell ourselves so that we may sleep better at night. Life may not be about status and money, but having the two makes it an order of magnitude better. Trying to tell yourself something else is denial, really.

Don't get me wrong - I definitely don't encourage turning kids into zombies and making them jump arbitrary stupid hoops that one needs to get to a top-tier university or otherwise gain status. But that's the world we live in - rewarding bullshit instead of actual value. There is no point in pretending otherwise, and seeing things for what they are is (almost) always helpful.