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Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

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Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#101

Post by snowwrestler »

wfo wrote: post #90

Dean complains about helicopter parents at Stanford and yet admissions essentially requires incoming students have helicopter parents. To get into a school like this you need to be exclusively focused on exactly the arbitrary criteria that will get you accepted into a school like this -- grades in the "right" classes, enough sports to talk about it in an essay but not too much, extracurricular and volunteer work at t…

There is a difference between being a demanding parent and being a helicopter parent. A demanding parent sets high expectations and offers support, but the kid must bring their own motivation and effort. A helicopter parent not only sets high expectations but does the work for the student to make sure they are met.

The classic example is the parent who goes into the school and harangues the teacher when their student gets a bad grade on an assignment. A demanding parent communicates their disappointment with their kid, not the teacher. A demanding parent lets their kid fail and then delivers consequences. Overcoming failure is how people develop motivation and mental toughness.

Stanford (and Harvard, MIT, CalTech, etc.) have been hard to get into for many decades, and students got into them. Helicopter parents justify their coptering with the sentiment above, but that doesn't mean it's true. You don't need to helicopter to have a high performing kid.

And not every kid is going to perform at the top level, and IMO a good parent needs to be ok with that. I think when the parental expectations don't meet reality, that's when helicoptering can start.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#102

Post by hamburglar »

tomphoolery wrote: post #94
wfo wrote: post #90

Dean complains about helicopter parents at Stanford and yet admissions essentially requires incoming students have helicopter parents. To get into a school like this you need to be exclusively focused on exactly the arbitrary criteria that will get you accepted into a school like this -- grades in the "right" classes, enough sports to talk about it in an essay but not too much, extracurricular and volunteer work at t…

Unfortunately, his position as a Dean prevents him from getting "too real" in this article, because what he should be telling these over-stressed and over-worked parents (and kids) is that you don't need to go to Harvard, or Stanford, or any Ivy League school really, to get a good education.

Also, if that were true about how to get into Stanford, we would likely be heading for a crash in such schools' reputations as places that churn out top quality graduates because they are selecting for the wrong attributes. I don't actually think Stanford is going to let that happen.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#103

Post by smithkl42 »

kelukelugames wrote: post #99
smithkl42 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Nobody wants to be the parent of the most mentally stable Starbucks Barista." - I believe you speak correctly for much of the population. But not for me. I would much rather have my three children work at Starbucks (or in construction, or as plumbers, or whatever) and be good human beings - full of love, justice and mercy, faithful to their families and loyal to their friends - than get into any Ivy League and fail…

It's much easier to be full of love, justice and mercy when people don't have to worry about money. Studies show a low threshold for that dollar amount but that number is multiple times higher for US major cities.

Perhaps. Certainly it's easier to be conventionally happy with enough money. And conversely, I think that folks who have a strong moral foundation find it a lot easier to make enough money. The arrow of causation quite likely runs both ways. But I know that the strongest sense of community and loyalty that I've seen are from working-class folks who may not have much money but who happen to have a strong underlying moral foundation.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#104

Post by nerdwaller »

My wife and I just had our first baby and were having a similar discussion, re letting our kid fail to learn to succeed and not being helicopters.

Historically speaking, most of the really successful people now aren't successful because they went to an Ivy League school (though maybe those connections help), they succeed because they TRY despite the chance of failure and learn from the failures (and smaller mistakes) to not repeat them.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#105

Post by forgetsusername »

seiji wrote: post #84
TelmoMenezes wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Today's environment is extremely competitive and the margin for error is lower. The margin for error is enormous, compared to previous generations. The probability that a mistake in life will lead you to die of starvation or cold is smaller than ever. What I think is happening is that global communication is leading to increased status neurosis. Before, you could compare your kids to the neighbors'. Now you can com…

Margin of error: go to Stanford, make the right connections, become a billionaire in 8 years versus go to a state school and work for the billionaires while making 1/5000th to 1/150000th as much as they do, yet you're doing all the work that makes them richer.

>become a billionaire in 8 years versus go to a state school and work for the billionaires

If the only thing that matters in life is how much money you make, this might be relevant.

Otherwise, working for those billionaires as a college grad isn't that bad.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#106

Post by snowwrestler »

supercanuck wrote: post #14

You know what. Those parents got those kids into Stanford. Obviously helicopter parenting is working for them. 90% of the decisions people make are based on the environments they are in. Today's environment is extremely competitive and the margin for error is lower. Nobody wants to be the parent of the most mentally stable Starbucks Barista... Get them into Stanford, then they have the rest of their life to "fail"

I do agree that some parents feel that way, but they're wrong. A graduate of Stanford (or Harvard, etc.) can still fail, and fail hard. A job environment is far less forgiving than even "hard" schools like Stanford. A top-school diploma gets a kid in the door, but then it's up to them. A boss is not going to give a bad employee a break because their mom dropped by.

At the same time, the range of available jobs is huge. The idea that it's "Stanford or Starbucks" is not reality.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#107

Post by ThomPete »

terda12 wrote: post #70
ThomPete wrote: post #18

As someone with children and living in NY, my wife and I are very aware of not trying to push our kids in a specific direction or to interfeer too much if they are having trouble solving something themselves. The problem once we start coaching our kids in an early age is that we are denying them to find a lot of subtle things out on their own. It's very easy to think you are helping your kids to learn by removing wha…

I grew up with parents who worked all the time and barely took part in their childrens lives. We cook dinner by ourselves a majority of the time. My 10 year old brother has to mow the lawn and do his own laundry. We get yelled at all the time like in the first column of the comics. At first I felt mad for it but now I'm realizing the benefits. I can take care of myself so well. I can cook, I keep my room clean, and I…

Exactly. There are always drawbacks no one persons background can predict the outcome of their lives which is why I believe it's an art – almost performing arts — more than a pedagogic or scientific enterprise.

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#108

Post by neogodless »

tomphoolery wrote: post #94
wfo wrote: post #90

Dean complains about helicopter parents at Stanford and yet admissions essentially requires incoming students have helicopter parents. To get into a school like this you need to be exclusively focused on exactly the arbitrary criteria that will get you accepted into a school like this -- grades in the "right" classes, enough sports to talk about it in an essay but not too much, extracurricular and volunteer work at t…

Unfortunately, his position as a Dean prevents him from getting "too real" in this article, because what he should be telling these over-stressed and over-worked parents (and kids) is that you don't need to go to Harvard, or Stanford, or any Ivy League school really, to get a good education.

This is in the article that the rest of us read:

"She urges families to think more broadly about what makes for a “good” college. There are excellent educational experiences to be had at schools that aren’t among U.S. News and World Report’s top 20, she says, and there are schools that will accept students who don’t have a perfect resume."

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#109

Post by GetofMyLawn »

supercanuck wrote: post #14

You know what. Those parents got those kids into Stanford. Obviously helicopter parenting is working for them. 90% of the decisions people make are based on the environments they are in. Today's environment is extremely competitive and the margin for error is lower. Nobody wants to be the parent of the most mentally stable Starbucks Barista... Get them into Stanford, then they have the rest of their life to "fail"

This is so true. However, I don't think it should start after you have children. When I decided to settle down and have children, I only dated very intelligent women based on their profession and if they were in MENSA. At the time when we decided to have children, we took our best eggs and sperm to produce the best genetically intelligent children we could.

So, for these "vintage" parents who are just getting their kids into Stanford, I applaud them. But because it's getting more and more competitive, I pity parents who don't start their helicoptering before the child before it is in the womb!

Re: Former Stanford dean explains why helicopter parenting is ruining a generation

#110

Post by briandear »

supercanuck wrote: post #14

You know what. Those parents got those kids into Stanford. Obviously helicopter parenting is working for them. 90% of the decisions people make are based on the environments they are in. Today's environment is extremely competitive and the margin for error is lower. Nobody wants to be the parent of the most mentally stable Starbucks Barista... Get them into Stanford, then they have the rest of their life to "fail"

Assuming "getting into Stanford" is the gold standard of parenting success. Plenty of billionaires who didn't even go to college. I refuse to make the admissions committee of Stanford be the judge of my parenting. By the plenty of graduates from 'good' schools working as baristas. Barista status has zero to do with your school accomplishment but with intrinsic traits such as motivation, ambition and creativity.
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