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Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

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Re: Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

#41

Post by scrollaway »

chrisseaton wrote: post #39
peeters wrote: post #11

> While switching to a new OS, especially Windows 10 is definitely a good move Who is claiming this? Maybe for hardware known to have good Windows 10 support it's a good move. For me, I've had more blue screens in the last month than I had in the 10 years before that. Lots of poor driver support (fingerprint reader doesn't work, touchpad reverts settings after every boot, crashes). The user experience is an upgrade f…

Would you still want to delay updating if Microsoft stopped all security updates for the previous version of Windows after releasing the new one? I think only supporting one version at a time has a lot of benefits like being able to focus on development and security for just one version. And I think we might all be better off collectively if everyone just upgraded straight away.

I want to point out that this logic is based on the implication that newer is more secure, and that isn't always True, especially in closed source products. Many apps have gone from generally-good software to adware in a coupe of auto-updates. Similar things could happen to Windows - in fact, the privacy issues I pointed out in the post below are a facet of that.

Re: Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

#42

Post by cma »

pcunite wrote: post #34
d2xdy2 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a tangent, how do you feel about Tesla doing OTA updates for core functionality on their cars? Stuff like "autopilot" and whatnot.

In this specific instance, it sounds like an "extra" and not a "change". So, I would be okay with that. However, I don't own a Tesla so I can't say for sure. For me personally, I don't want upgrades that throw away all my muscle memory in the name of "design". As more and more people enter the software development ecosystem, they're going to need to learn (the hard way) that sometimes "boring" is the right thing to d…

The update also apparently changed the dashboard and rearranged common things like your current speed.

Re: Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

#43

Post by makecheck »

IvyMike wrote: post #30
userbinator wrote: post #10

While switching to a new OS, especially Windows 10 is definitely a good move Microsoft would certainly promote that view, but is it really? Am I one of the minority of users who prefers a stable environment customised exactly as I want it, instead of "latest and greatest"?

There have been some pretty significant under-the-hood security upgrades in each new version of Windows. So while the UI changes are what users notice, the new security features are probably the more important reason to upgrade.

That's a fundamental architecture problem with a lot of software: it's not possible to get most useful upgrades without accepting the rest of the changes.

This is sad for security because people see things like "stupid UI changes" and they make upgrade decisions based on the parts of the change that are most visible instead of the parts that are most valuable.

Software should probably be designed so that it can be distributed in a layered fashion. I shouldn't want "git cherry-pick" every time I click an Update button.

Re: Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

#46

Post by thom »

ferongr wrote: post #14

Personally after KB3035583 that I had hidden before, was re-enabled and installed automatically, I started feeling bothered by that fact. That was the final push that led me to nuking my Windows 7 partition and jumping to Xubuntu GNU/Linux.

I'm getting _so_ bored of having to click on every knowledge base article to see exactly what each of the updates do, in order to hide (week after week) the two or three that try and sneak Get Windows 10 in. I'm getting less and less likely to install _any_ updates.

Re: Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

#48

Post by davnicwil »

lucb1e wrote: post #36
davnicwil wrote: post #28

I may have some of the facts wrong here, but I think this means that upgraded systems will also start to run Microsoft's evergreen browser Edge, in place of IE, as the default browser. It seems like this aspect, at least, could be a very good thing. Thinking about the very non-technical and casual user who uses the default IE and doesn't upgrade/switch for no particular reason other than some mixture of doesn't know…

> I can't see this being anything other than a good thing for (the vast majority of) these users and for developers. For developers? I think they are quite capable of deciding for themselves. For users? Here I can see where you're coming from, but let's think this through: - Some users know how stuff works. They'll upgrade when they want to, no need to force them. - Some users have no clue about how stuff works, but…

> For developers? I think they are quite capable of deciding for themselves.

Sorry, to be clear on this I mean devs building the stuff users use, as in no more need to support older, less standards-compliant, less fully-featured browsers. It saves an incredible amount of effort, time, money and stress.

I'm not even saying Edge is good, I'm just saying it's evergreen and regardless of its current state you'd hope it will only improve in these areas over time, and getting users on it removes the upgrade issue now and forevermore.

As for the three categories, I'm emphatically talking about the last one, which is absolutely massive. I used to work at a company where a significant proportion of our userbase was composed of this type of person. Lots of money is wasted on this problem, which is so easy to fix. It's a hugely important consideration, unless your market is developers or technologists, in which case this isn't an issue at all.

Re: Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

#49

Post by ac29 »

Silhouette wrote: post #29

This article seems to be light on specifics and completely devoid of verifiable sources. If Microsoft actually did force an involuntary upgrade this, it seems likely they would be on the receiving end of real lawsuits or even facing criminal charges for unauthorised access to computer systems (particularly if they did it to anyone who had actively avoided installing or keeping earlier updates related to Windows 10),…

I'll be an anecdotal, but verifiable source.

"[...] since whenever you restart or shut down your PC, the next time you use it, the machine will start installing Windows 10".

This is absolutely false on at least 2 PCs I manage (one Win7 home, one Win8.1 home, both have had the tray icon offering the free upgrade for months). They have both been restarted in the past couple days and neither has upgraded itself to Win10.

Re: Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

#50

Post by xiler »

pcunite wrote: post #18

My concern with Windows 10, and I expect it to get addressed, is having a platform underneath me keep changing. I don't want to get in my car one day and find out that the gas pedal has changed positions with the brake. I expect my OS to be just as consistent in this regard. So, for me, I need a way to say, "I don't ever want to upgrade automatically. I'll upgrade when I'm ready".

Despite the totality of his radical opinions, this to me seems like one of RMS's more valid arguments against non-Libre software. Especially when it comes to something fundamental like an OS, being at the mercy of a corporation is highly problematic.
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