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Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

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Re: Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

#31
post #11

> While switching to a new OS, especially Windows 10 is definitely a good move Who is claiming this? Maybe for hardware known to have good Windows 10 support it's a good move. For me, I've had more blue screens in the last month than I had in the 10 years before that. Lots of poor driver support (fingerprint reader doesn't work, touchpad reverts settings after every boot, crashes). The user experience is an upgrade f…

When I installed windows 10 last week I had the .. pleasure... to look at the various privacy options.

During the installation, Windows uses weasel words to present the user with privacy settings hiding the option to change them at all. Take a look:

https://jonathan.porta.codes/images/posts/2015/07/window-10-...

In "express settings":

* Send contact, calendar and input data to Microsoft

* Send typing and inking data to Microsoft

* Let apps use your Advertising ID for "experiences across apps" (I'm not making this shit up)

* Send microsoft and "trusted partners" location data

* Turn on SmartScreen (Admittedly I don't know exactly how it works but seeing as it's in those options I can take a horrifying guess on the implications)

* Send your browsing data to Microsoft to "make your overall experience better" (WTF wording)

* Autoconnect to shared networks

* Autoconnect to suggested open hotspots

Damn. And then, one that's not in there which you have to find for yourself, if you even know about it: P2P share windows updates with any windows computer on the internet.

Ho-ly-crap. I like W10 as an OS so far but this stuff is just insane.

BTW, the only reason I went with W10 was that W7 doesn't support GPT.

Sources:

http://www.howtogeek.com/224352/what%E2%80%99s-the-differenc...

http://www.howtogeek.com/224981/how-to-stop-windows-10-from-...

Edit: Yikes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_SmartScreen#SmartScr...

Re: Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

#32

I may have some of the facts wrong here, but I think this means that upgraded systems will also start to run Microsoft's evergreen browser Edge, in place of IE, as the default browser. It seems like this aspect, at least, could be a very good thing. Thinking about the very non-technical and casual user who uses the default IE and doesn't upgrade/switch for no particular reason other than some mixture of doesn't know…

...Except that Edge is the new IE, in some bad ways. Sure, many bugs and missing features will be fixed and added in the coming months/years, but there are already a number of hacks that need to be made to properly support Edge with similar functionality as FF, Chrome and Safari. All that's old is new.

Re: Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

#33
post #14

Personally after KB3035583 that I had hidden before, was re-enabled and installed automatically, I started feeling bothered by that fact. That was the final push that led me to nuking my Windows 7 partition and jumping to Xubuntu GNU/Linux.

Ah, so I wasn't the only one that had this happen. I thought I was going crazy for a while.

Re: Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

#34
post #21
post #18

My concern with Windows 10, and I expect it to get addressed, is having a platform underneath me keep changing. I don't want to get in my car one day and find out that the gas pedal has changed positions with the brake. I expect my OS to be just as consistent in this regard. So, for me, I need a way to say, "I don't ever want to upgrade automatically. I'll upgrade when I'm ready".

On a tangent, how do you feel about Tesla doing OTA updates for core functionality on their cars? Stuff like "autopilot" and whatnot.

In this specific instance, it sounds like an "extra" and not a "change". So, I would be okay with that. However, I don't own a Tesla so I can't say for sure. For me personally, I don't want upgrades that throw away all my muscle memory in the name of "design". As more and more people enter the software development ecosystem, they're going to need to learn (the hard way) that sometimes "boring" is the right thing to do.

Re: Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

#36

I may have some of the facts wrong here, but I think this means that upgraded systems will also start to run Microsoft's evergreen browser Edge, in place of IE, as the default browser. It seems like this aspect, at least, could be a very good thing. Thinking about the very non-technical and casual user who uses the default IE and doesn't upgrade/switch for no particular reason other than some mixture of doesn't know…

> I can't see this being anything other than a good thing for (the vast majority of) these users and for developers.

For developers? I think they are quite capable of deciding for themselves.

For users? Here I can see where you're coming from, but let's think this through:

- Some users know how stuff works. They'll upgrade when they want to, no need to force them.

- Some users have no clue about how stuff works, but they know someone who does (e.g. my grandma and me). If there would be an opt-out of this forced upgrade, that someone (me) could perform that on their computer and upgrade them when they're ready. But there is no opt out, so instead they (me) will have a hell of an explaining job on their hands. It might actually be the perfect excuse to install Ubuntu since the only reason not to is because they're "used to Windows now". And remember, this group didn't need a forced upgrade in the first place since they have someone who helps them stay up to date and does stuff that needs doing.

- Some users have no clue and have nobody to help them. There's no point trying to get them the latest updates when they'll click accept on anything their screen tells them to accept (e.g. fake flash update). Some protection is better than none and thus Edge is better than IE8, I agree on that, but I'm not sure there is that much of a point. And they may become unable to use a computer altogether with a disruptive change like this.

In other words, nobody benefits. Maybe not even Microsoft, but I can't tell yet.

Re: Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

#37

I may have some of the facts wrong here, but I think this means that upgraded systems will also start to run Microsoft's evergreen browser Edge, in place of IE, as the default browser. It seems like this aspect, at least, could be a very good thing. Thinking about the very non-technical and casual user who uses the default IE and doesn't upgrade/switch for no particular reason other than some mixture of doesn't know…

...Except that Edge is the new IE, in some bad ways. Sure, many bugs and missing features will be fixed and added in the coming months/years, but there are already a number of hacks that need to be made to properly support Edge with similar functionality as FF, Chrome and Safari. All that's old is new.

No, what's new is that those bugs and missing features will get fixed without an OS service pack / release.

Re: Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

#38
This would run afoul of the European 'cookie law' (the name is a bit of a misnomer as it applies to more than just cookies). In short: Microsoft needs express permission to store/modify files on my computer.

It will probably be spun like Windows 10 is a security update to old OS's, but that is simply not sincere. Given the problematic privacy/sharing/phone-home settings on Windows 10 one can hardly call it a security improvement.

  You must tell people if you set cookies, and clearly 
  explain what the cookies do and why. You must also get
  the user’s consent. Consent can be implied, but must be
  knowingly given.

  The same rules also apply if you use any other type of
  technology to store or gain access to information on
  someone’s device.
https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-pecr/cookies-a...

  [Under the cookie law permission is needed to] store 
  or gain access to data on the peripherals of a user 
  through an electronic communication network.
http://www.justitia.nl/cookiewet.html

  Article 5.3) Member States shall ensure that the use 
  of electronic communications networks to store 
  information or to gain access to information stored in
  the terminal equipment of a subscriber or user is only
  allowed on condition that the subscriber or user
  concerned is provided with clear and comprehensive
  information in accordance with Directive 95/46/EC,
  inter alia about the purposes of the processing, and 
  is offered the right to refuse such processing by the
  data controller.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:...

Re: Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

#39
post #11

> While switching to a new OS, especially Windows 10 is definitely a good move Who is claiming this? Maybe for hardware known to have good Windows 10 support it's a good move. For me, I've had more blue screens in the last month than I had in the 10 years before that. Lots of poor driver support (fingerprint reader doesn't work, touchpad reverts settings after every boot, crashes). The user experience is an upgrade f…

Would you still want to delay updating if Microsoft stopped all security updates for the previous version of Windows after releasing the new one? I think only supporting one version at a time has a lot of benefits like being able to focus on development and security for just one version. And I think we might all be better off collectively if everyone just upgraded straight away.

Re: Microsoft Removes the Option to Opt Out of Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

#40
post #17

While switching to a new OS, especially Windows 10 is definitely a good move Microsoft would certainly promote that view, but is it really? Am I one of the minority of users who prefers a stable environment customised exactly as I want it, instead of "latest and greatest"?

Disable the Windows Update service. Microsoft will never bother you again and you can have your exact, perfected experience for all eternity.

I had to buy a shovel a few years ago. It was so nice with the modern construction and materials. Much better than what my dad and I used when I was a kid helping him with chores.

But you know what? I didn't have to re-learn anything! It just worked. It was a cool new color, felt better, actually helped me dig better, but the functionality it provided and the user experience was largely the same.

Modern software companies will "have" to understand this and tell their designers to go for a long walk. Software is too important to simply say, "Everything has changed! Surprise!"

Most people don't care about software "changes" about like I don't care how the engine in my car works. Just make it go. Fix it, improve it, make it safer, blah blah ... but don't make me do something different because your designers are bored with consistency.

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