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Ask HN: What visa do foreign YC founders use to stay in US beyond 3 months?

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Re: Ask HN: What visa do foreign YC founders use to stay in US beyond 3 months?

#21
post #5

I've had two cofounder friends (both non-American) who sponsored each others' H1B. Seems like a loophole but it seemed to work :)

Talk to an immigration lawyer before you try this. The H-1B visa was clarified to allow for founder sponsorship, assuming you can demonstrate an employer-employee relationship. To demonstrate an employer-employee relationship you need to be able to show that you can be fired from your company, which is difficult to show if you're the only two founders on the board, and you each own 50% of the company. I'm not saying…

This works if you are three co-founders each with 33%, since any two of you could fire the third. (I am also not a lawyer, but this is how I got my H-1B five years ago.)

That said, the fact that the H-1B process is now a lottery - i.e. no matter qualified you are or how good your lawyer is, it's still a roll of the dice - makes it hard to recommend if you actually want any ability to plan for the future.

H-1B also puts more scrutiny on the company, so you'll probably need to have raised money (so you can prove you can pay yourself a market rate salary), have an office, etc.

Re: Ask HN: What visa do foreign YC founders use to stay in US beyond 3 months?

#22
Technically it isn't clear what visa foreign YC founders should use to stay in the US during the 3 months.

Visa waiver[0] only allows for meetings, attending a conference, attend short-term unpaid training or negotiate a contract. Anything that really is 'working' - such as performing software engineering for a company (even your own) - is arguably outside of the visa waiver.

I'm assuming YC doesn't want founders to be outside of the law so I'm curious what their legal advisors have advised them.

[0]http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visa-waiver-p...

Re: Ask HN: What visa do foreign YC founders use to stay in US beyond 3 months?

#23

Regardless of whether you're a YC founder or not, in general unless you're Canadian/Mexican and can qualify for a TN, or Australian and can qualify for an E-3, your only viable real option is an O-1 (Alien of Extraordinary ability). It's not an unachievable visa, and there are many founders who use it, but the requirements to demonstrate extraordinary ability are onerous. From USCIS: * Receipt of nationally or intern…

Not knowing what YC actually does, my first 2 thoughts were: O-1 and J-1 Visas (certainly there could be other solutions)

O-1: Typically I would think of athletes/entertainers, in the US for competition/show/tour/etc... It may not apply to some young founder getting into YC who has no other track record of success; however, YC/Tech are politically connected so the mere fact one is accepted into YC, it might = extraordinary ability (in the eyes of the Gov. anyway)

J-1= I personally have never gone down this path in my legal career, so I am not 100% sure, but it is possible YC is part of an exchange program...if not, they should set up their own business education exchange and consider this especially for their fellowship program...boom legal hack (and except the fact I just gave it away, I could have applied to YC with the idea of hacking the legal system to get more visas for foreign founders joining US incubators...YC application hack)

Re: Ask HN: What visa do foreign YC founders use to stay in US beyond 3 months?

#24
I heard about a seed fund for foreign founders that will invest by hiring the founders and paying them salaries while sponsoring the founders' visa. So the salary is basically the seed fund. I can't remember their name so I'm not sure if they're still around or if it's even legal but I thought the idea was cool. Maybe YC can look into something like that?

EDIT: found it. https://angel.co/unshackled

Re: Ask HN: What visa do foreign YC founders use to stay in US beyond 3 months?

#25
post #12
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering H1B visa only allows you to work for the company that sponsored your visa, what you're describing sounds illegal, not just a loophole. I'm not saying they shouldn't do so. And I'm also not saying anything about whether the H1B requirements make any sense. I'm just saying that hopefully they're aware that what they're doing is illegal and may hurt their companies at any moment.

H1B is transferrable any time, even before you start working for the company that sponsored it.

I'd imagine transferring H1B to your own company will have the same issues that applying H1B for your own company will.

Re: Ask HN: What visa do foreign YC founders use to stay in US beyond 3 months?

#27
US immigration system is broken & is a joke. H1B "skilled" visas are based on your luck (lottery) and not on your skills (surprise). They change the rules every now and then and its a nightmare to be on H1B worrying whether you are in legal status and the fear of being deported. Now LCA is not enough to change your work location. H1B amendment is needed which is another nightmare.

You can go for an investor visa option but it has it own quirks. With the current immigration system, foreign investors or founders should exercise a lot of caution as far the immigration system of US is concerned.

Re: Ask HN: What visa do foreign YC founders use to stay in US beyond 3 months?

#28

Regardless of whether you're a YC founder or not, in general unless you're Canadian/Mexican and can qualify for a TN, or Australian and can qualify for an E-3, your only viable real option is an O-1 (Alien of Extraordinary ability). It's not an unachievable visa, and there are many founders who use it, but the requirements to demonstrate extraordinary ability are onerous. From USCIS: * Receipt of nationally or intern…

I (Australian) had never heard of the E3 visa until just now - Interesting that it defines "Speciality work" as anything that requires a degree in the job description.

I don't have one, but have been working professionally in this field for 4 years (I'm 22), and thus would not be eligible. To qualify for experience in lieu of a degree you require 3 years of work for each one year of university, so when I've been working for 12 years I could do that.

Interesting regulation, in Australia we have a "skilled occupations list" [0] which is a list of skilled work which specifically is in demand in Australia

[0] http://www.visabureau.com/australia/skilled-occupation-list....

Re: Ask HN: What visa do foreign YC founders use to stay in US beyond 3 months?

#29
I have an O-1 visa, it's not impossible and it's a great visa to have since you can reuse the same documents for your initial application for subsequent renewal. The key is to get as many peer references you can get in your industry.

While getting letters from your advisers and investors is great, it's a common mistake to ONLY do people in your startup. You want to get recommendations from your previous employers and also academics who write about the industry you're in to justify your extraordinary ability. You don't want to put "founder" in your application (unless you're IPO'ed), you want to put "founder + professional skill".

The reason is that an O-1 is really meant for talent or skilled professionals. Being a founder is not necessarily a skill, it's just an indication that you've started a company. By applying as a founder, you miss the main purpose of the visa and that gets your application rejected.

edit: not a YC founder, just a founder.

Re: Ask HN: What visa do foreign YC founders use to stay in US beyond 3 months?

#30

Regardless of whether you're a YC founder or not, in general unless you're Canadian/Mexican and can qualify for a TN, or Australian and can qualify for an E-3, your only viable real option is an O-1 (Alien of Extraordinary ability). It's not an unachievable visa, and there are many founders who use it, but the requirements to demonstrate extraordinary ability are onerous. From USCIS: * Receipt of nationally or intern…

Calls for O-1aaS startup.

Setup an organization that will:

* Generate awards and prizes in computer science and its sub-fields.

* It will have a journal that will be populated by a deep learning nn. Seeded by a few areas of interest a user will put in, it will then auto-generate articles.

* Setup a contracting service where you invest in it initially, then it pays it back to you as salary for whatever minimum amount of periods O-1 requires. (Bonus, use also for money laundering).

* Have a number of "critical" position and can only be filled by person.

This is of course a joke. But that how some PR organizations works. There is of course the classic book "Toxic Sludge is Good For You: Lies, Damn Lies and the Public Relations Industry" how the word sludge turned to biosolids. One of the techniques was to create a fake scientific journal and start publishing fake papers to it. Then convinced the dictionary publishers that biosolids is now a word and it is used by "scientists".

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