It's kind of scary how effective the Russian propaganda is with only 3% believing MH17 was shot down by the rebels when that is almost certainly what happened.
Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
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Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
#22What I don't understand is how so many people can still watch TV news and believe what they say. Every news show I have seen in the last 10 years or more is complete BS and exists in a reality bubble where bad things happen but everything is fine as a kitten was saved in the end of the show. Why do they hold so much power? I can understand 50+ year olds maybe, but young people? Are you telling me young people look on…
What I don't understand is why you trust this article if you don't trust TV. The fact that it's written doesn't mean they don't lie.
And what's even more troubling is that nowadays Russian propaganda is more believable than the western one ...
Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
#23Is this the same missile that was launched from a mobile carrier that arrived from across the Russian border and then days later was driven back across the border? Putin is extremely manipulative and dangerous. Like a Kim Jong-un without anyone like China to tell him "no". I'm surprised no-one points out he is basically on the third term of what should be a two term limit. That alone removes all legitimacy from his r…
Putin is manipulative and dangerous, while the US and NATO continue to expand their military influence worldwide, but they're benign, right?
Countries of Eastern Europe are willingly joining NATO because they don't want to be bullied by a certain country in the east.
My country joined NATO because, altho not under direct threat from Russia, Russia supported our enemy (going as far as sending special forces to work undercover) in a very recent conflict and as such I couldn't give a shit if Russia feels that their imperialism is threatened by my security.
No one in NATO has to force any country into joining NATO. Russia's doing it on its won.
Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
#24Honestly, I believe more to people who did those missiles, than to some random Dutch experts (with all respect, of course). Almaz-Antey did their own investigation, they did experiments, they have very expert knowledge about those missiles, so it's very important not to throw away their facts.
They might be influenced by Russia politics, of course, but Netherlands, as part of Europe, definitely follows anti-Russian politics as well.
Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
#25What I don't understand is how so many people can still watch TV news and believe what they say. Every news show I have seen in the last 10 years or more is complete BS and exists in a reality bubble where bad things happen but everything is fine as a kitten was saved in the end of the show. Why do they hold so much power? I can understand 50+ year olds maybe, but young people? Are you telling me young people look on…
Why do you think old people and young people should behave differently?
What I mean with the 50+ is people who are not technologically aware and/or are very set in their ways. I find it a lot harder to change the mindset, or at least talking about it with older generations then the younger ones. From my point of view (European) its hard to understand that people don't distrust any news outlet or politician, but maybe that's just my personal paranoia.
Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
#26"Put another way: Propaganda works. Putin has understood that from Day" We can be only glad that Western media (including the NY Times) has never been used for propaganda and all information is absolutely objective, reproducible, and a hundred percent trustworthy. Has anybody already found the WMDs in Iraq?
If you read wikipedia etc, there seems to be a consensus that the Bush administration really believed that Saddam Hussein's Iraq still had the weapon programs going. Personally, I think that with all the leaks it would be known if Bush lied. For instance, some Russian source published death and maiming data for the Ukrainian war by mistake [regarding costs for pensions etc]. No one is saying that politicians don't li…
That's incredibly naive but besides the point.
The US has weapons of mass destruction, so does Russia, and China, and Pakistan, and India and Israel.
Keep in mind the context, this was the second such invasion of Iraq, the first war being conducted by Bush Sr, having failed to discourage Saddam from attacking Kuwait[1]. In between the two wars the US bombing and sanctions caused the deaths of an estimated 500000 children[2].
So trying to justify the glaring lies, as some kind of buffoonery, especially in the context of what had been done to Iraq for the previous decade, is naive in my opinion.
[1] http://www.globalresearch.ca/gulf-war-documents-meeting-betw... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0WDCYcUJ4o
Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
#27Why Russians should not believe it?
- Ukraine army shoot down civil airliner with 90 people on board just a few years ago [1]
- It was regular war zone with dozens other planes shoot down [2].
- It happened on Ukraine territory, most likely by Ukraine citizens.
- Buk 9M38 is not Russian missile, but Soviet (that includes Ukraine).
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ukrainian_aircraft_los...
Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
#28Honestly, I believe more to people who did those missiles, than to some random Dutch experts (with all respect, of course). Almaz-Antey did their own investigation, they did experiments, they have very expert knowledge about those missiles, so it's very important not to throw away their facts. They might be influenced by Russia politics, of course, but Netherlands, as part of Europe, definitely follows anti-Russian p…
Err, you clearly didn't watch/read the report then, because the investigation wasn't "dutch", it was conducted by a large team if different nationalities, including Russians. Aside from that, the international team has the missile fragments and the airplane, the Russian team doesn't.
Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
#29Thank you New York Times, the News Group that Snowden could not use to whistle blow because it is a direct branch of US government, for reminding us Western how free we are against propaganda.
We can really trust the 6 companies that own all media groups in the US, or the two news agencies that control all what we watch in the West.
Never believe that the Government of the US have ever thought about controlling these 6 groups. That in order to make a movie about the military you have to give your script to the US military for review.
Don't read Propaganda by EDWARD L. BERNAYS or any other book, just trust us, we are the good guys.
Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
#30Oh wow, finally an opportunity to see the pot calling the kettle black. Nytimes readers should remember this article every time they see a casual line coming from "anonymous government officials" of the United States being printed as fact without question or scrutiny.