Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
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Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
#2Ah... Media these days. I can't trust anyone, anymore.
I guess, best thing to do is not to have opinion at all.
I'm having a GPS in my pocket, I can browse most of the cities from my computer through Google Earth. I can talk to my watch, which replies and sends messages for me, but not a single country can provide a satellite image of the exact location of a fired rocket or any other evidence, like radar logs of some sort.
Sometimes I really think I'm living in a multi-country-conspiracy and Snowden is only the top of the iceberg.
Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
#3"Put another way: Propaganda works. Putin has understood that from Day"
We can be only glad that Western media (including the NY Times) has never been used for propaganda and all information is absolutely objective, reproducible, and a hundred percent trustworthy.
Has anybody already found the WMDs in Iraq?
Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
#4Sounds to me like it's them that use propaganda and we are the truly informed.
Keep the company of those who seek the truth- run from those who have found it
Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
#5"Put another way: Propaganda works. Putin has understood that from Day" We can be only glad that Western media (including the NY Times) has never been used for propaganda and all information is absolutely objective, reproducible, and a hundred percent trustworthy. Has anybody already found the WMDs in Iraq?
To put the two in the same category is a bit much:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/04/russia-s-pr...
Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
#6Ah... Media these days. I can't trust anyone, anymore. I guess, best thing to do is not to have opinion at all. I'm having a GPS in my pocket, I can browse most of the cities from my computer through Google Earth. I can talk to my watch, which replies and sends messages for me, but not a single country can provide a satellite image of the exact location of a fired rocket or any other evidence, like radar logs of some…
That seems to be the point of modern propaganda. It's no longer about trying to convince people of what to believe in. Instead, the idea is to throw out multiple competing ideas no matter how far fetched to breed cynicism and conspiracy theories.
I tend to read RT.com from time to time when Russia is featuring in the news to see what the Russian media is saying. And I have to confess the barrage of conflicting information (vis a vis western media) is extremely disorienting and difficult to methodically process. I'm not surprised that some people feel the way that you do.
What I would also add is it's interesting to note how the story is pretty consistent from western media (that rebels shot down the plane by mistake). From what I've seen, the Russian media perspective is highly fluid; i.e. prone to change and multi-pronged.
Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
#7Ah... Media these days. I can't trust anyone, anymore. I guess, best thing to do is not to have opinion at all. I'm having a GPS in my pocket, I can browse most of the cities from my computer through Google Earth. I can talk to my watch, which replies and sends messages for me, but not a single country can provide a satellite image of the exact location of a fired rocket or any other evidence, like radar logs of some…
Well, you shouldn't really trust any information without considering cui bono, etc. The media sell eyeballs. And so on.
In the present case -- there seems to be a theme in comments from security experts in the democratic countries. They claim that muddying the waters, so no one is trusted, is the real target of Russia's alternate history.
If all cats are grey and everyone lies -- then military invasions and stealing areas wasn't as bad, relatively. It is all just a matter of opinion.
So give the modern propaganda engine a hat tip for evil competence.
Edit: What "reqres" wrote, in the same minute. It was interesting about the propanda. I would like to add to his comment that I've seldom seen so many sources in democratic countries be so consistent as about the Ukraine war, in so many countries and from so many viewpoints.
Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
#8Is this the same missile that was launched from a mobile carrier that arrived from across the Russian border and then days later was driven back across the border?
Putin is extremely manipulative and dangerous. Like a Kim Jong-un without anyone like China to tell him "no".
I'm surprised no-one points out he is basically on the third term of what should be a two term limit. That alone removes all legitimacy from his rule.
Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
#9"Put another way: Propaganda works. Putin has understood that from Day" We can be only glad that Western media (including the NY Times) has never been used for propaganda and all information is absolutely objective, reproducible, and a hundred percent trustworthy. Has anybody already found the WMDs in Iraq?
To put the two in the same category is a bit much: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/04/russia-s-pr...
Well, one killed intentionally from 150k up to 600k people [0], the other one (if it was "him" and if it was intentionally) some 300.
So not really the same category...
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War
To be more specific: I don't see any of the features prcolaimed by the West (honest government, no interference in other country's business, avoid civilian kills) upheld by themselves.
Also to note, I don't think Putin does it either.
Re: Why Russia’s Alternate History of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Matters
#10"Put another way: Propaganda works. Putin has understood that from Day" We can be only glad that Western media (including the NY Times) has never been used for propaganda and all information is absolutely objective, reproducible, and a hundred percent trustworthy. Has anybody already found the WMDs in Iraq?
If you read wikipedia etc, there seems to be a consensus that the Bush administration really believed that Saddam Hussein's Iraq still had the weapon programs going.
Personally, I think that with all the leaks it would be known if Bush lied. For instance, some Russian source published death and maiming data for the Ukrainian war by mistake [regarding costs for pensions etc].
No one is saying that politicians don't lie. But there are levels in Hell. There is, in these two cases, a big difference between the incompetence of the Bush administration and systematic disinformation.
But I suspect you know this already...
Edit: It is also a bit much to make the US responsible for civilians killed by people also trying to kill American soldiers. To start with, you need to subtract all the people the Hussein regime would have murdered over the years, if it hadn't been kicked out.
Edit 2: 3princip: The WMD thing was probably an excuse for Bush, sure. But I answered the claim that this WMD excuse was a LIE -- which seems to not be true. So it is you that miss the point. (And this is a serious place so give serious references, not some generic youtube video.)