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Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

nytimes.com

131–140 of 184 posts

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi 'gotchange! Since you speak (and read) Arabic, could you tell what's in the top left corner of that picture[0]? Seems like hashtag-something, but it wasn't mentioned in the article. [0] - http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/10/16/world/middleeast/1...

This is most likely "جاسوس" which translates primarily to "spy" or "agent" depending on context.

So it's most definitely a part of the joke. Thanks! :).

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to popular use. A lot of words, especially in the political or controversial sphere, end up having folk definitions that are open to interpretation. Witness how meaningless labels like "conservative" or "liberal" become when you try to dissect them.

Incorrect popular use doesn't make it correct. This venue if any ought to know the difference.

Tell that to the U.S. Supreme Court, who believe a tomato is a vegetable, not a fruit.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nix_v._Hedden

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#133

Meanwhile, a cartoon depicting the Prophet Muhammad resulted the deaths of 12 people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo#Muhammad_cartoon...

Meanwhile, a Texas church burned the holy book of millions of Muslims. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dove_World_Outreach_Center_Q... What's your point?

> Meanwhile, a Texas church burned the holy book of millions of Muslims.

And Muslim (extremists?), killed 30 people in response, and resulted in a fatwa against Terry Jones.

> What's your point?

Artistic demonstration against the west, is (nearly) a right.

Artistic expression against Muslims, is (nearly) a death sentence.

---

It's a false equivalency to compare our (White Christian) nutjobs to their (Islam) nutjobs.

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#134
post #2

I haven't seen Homeland past the first season - but can someone who has seen more shed light on the alleged "racism" of the show? Is the show actually racist in its depiction of Arab-speaking characters, or is this simply a manifestation of Hanlon's Razor - "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"?

Well, the show depicts largely terrorists and criminals. Activists apparently want long diatribes about how wonderful Arab and Muslim families are to "balance" it out. Homeland isn't a documentary. Its a dramatic show about national security and as such it will probably not paint a realistic picture of the average Muslim, because average Muslims aren't really what its supposed to portray. The same way professional wr…

Maybe the activists just want the show to put the relatively minimal effort into getting basic facts right, which the linked article gives several examples of them failing to do. If I write a novel set in a neighborhood in present-day Detroit, and I describe it looking like downtown Palo Alto and say the economic hard times there were caused by everyone losing their jobs at the local salmon fisheries, I doubt I could deploy "but it's fiction!" as a Get Out Of Criticism Free card.

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As racist as it would be if there were a US show based on how the French are scary, and no one involved with the show spoke French. It means that they are likely exclusively trading in stereotypes and Western orientialist imagery and tropes. I've never seen the show.

France is not a race. That would be xenophobia, which is a different brand of bigotry. Not speaking Arabic is a grey area -- not all Muslims are Arabic, despite the fact that the Quran is written in Arabic and only canonical in that language. There are millions and millions of Muslims who do not speak Arabic, and rely on their clergy to teach them the Quran. While it's apparently not the case here, the absence of an…

> France is not a race.

There are no races in the human species. Claiming otherwise without providing strong scientific proof is what racism actually is.

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And matches are perfectly safe, if you don't happen to be surrounded by flammables. My point goes back to personal responsibility. Whose fault is it if you're surrounded by flammables labeled appropriately? The analogy is that this is labeled as a "TV show" not a documentary.

Why are the creators of the show absolved of their personal responsibility regarding the impact of their actions? If a company poisons the local reservoir with their chemical run-off, are they morally able to say, "Well, they shouldn't have drank that water. They knew they lived near a chemical plant." No, we trust fiction-based-on-reality to have a semblence of reality to it and to not be blatently racist. That's a…

> Why are the creators of the show absolved of their personal responsibility regarding the impact of their actions?

Because they aren't democratically elected public officials, they're just making a TV show from private funding. And watching the TV show is optional.

> If a company poisons the local reservoir with their chemical run-off, are they morally able to say, "Well, they shouldn't have drank that water. They knew they lived near a chemical plant."

That's a violation of environmental laws; how is this analogy applicable to a TV show? Would you propose to curtail the right to free speech? It's a TV show, not real life.

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect popular use doesn't make it correct. This venue if any ought to know the difference.

Tell that to the U.S. Supreme Court, who believe a tomato is a vegetable, not a fruit. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nix_v._Hedden

Well, the US Supreme Court (in 1893) believed that the Congress (in 1883) in writing a tariff act was using the words "fruit" and "tomato" as they are commonly used in English, and not as they are strictly used botanically.

In the absence of specific definitions in the law to the contrary that seems a fairly reasonable interpretation of the meaning most likely intended by Congress.

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As racist as it would be if there were a US show based on how the French are scary, and no one involved with the show spoke French. It means that they are likely exclusively trading in stereotypes and Western orientialist imagery and tropes. I've never seen the show.

France is not a race. That would be xenophobia, which is a different brand of bigotry. Not speaking Arabic is a grey area -- not all Muslims are Arabic, despite the fact that the Quran is written in Arabic and only canonical in that language. There are millions and millions of Muslims who do not speak Arabic, and rely on their clergy to teach them the Quran. While it's apparently not the case here, the absence of an…

What do you think a race is? The French are a race under any defensible definition. They're more closely related to each other than they are to Georgians.

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France is not a race. That would be xenophobia, which is a different brand of bigotry. Not speaking Arabic is a grey area -- not all Muslims are Arabic, despite the fact that the Quran is written in Arabic and only canonical in that language. There are millions and millions of Muslims who do not speak Arabic, and rely on their clergy to teach them the Quran. While it's apparently not the case here, the absence of an…

> France is not a race. There are no races in the human species. Claiming otherwise without providing strong scientific proof is what racism actually is.

No, racism is discriminating based on (perceived) race, not merely the belief that race exists. (Which it manifestly does, as a cultural construct.)

Nationality and ethnicity likewise exist as related, but usually distinct, cultural constructs to race, and we have different names for bigotry based on them. Though, obviously, the distinction between these forms of bigotry is somewhat nitpicky, and often not meaningful, and a lot of time "racism" is used broadly to refer to bigotry based on race, ethnicity, or nationality.

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#140
post #83

Homeland is a TV show, for entertainment. No one is happy with a lot of documentaries, the TV shows that are meant to get at facts and not just entertain. So while I don't want to give Homeland a free ride, it'd be too much to expect more from the show.

> Homeland is a TV show, for entertainment.

It's also an excellent example of propaganda.

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