Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is Life Special Just Because It’s Rare?

nautil.us

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–47 of 47 posts

Re: Is Life Special Just Because It’s Rare?

#41

Post by chm »

philh wrote: post #16
bduerst wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The order in a deck of cards is unique, but it's not complex . The nucleotide sequence in a chromosome is unique and complex. An analogy of your comparison would be comparing a single sentence to the sum of mankind's written works, with the latter being life. A complex, organized source of information like that is special.

If you shuffle a deck of 3 billion cards, the order is less compressible than the human genome. It's still not special. Is it complex, by your definition? How about my scribble, or a snowflake?

Wouldn't the compression depend on how many symbols you used? I guess you meant "shuffle a deck of 3 billion different cards"?

Re: Is Life Special Just Because It’s Rare?

#42

Post by x3n0ph3n3 »

chongli wrote: post #34
philh wrote: post #8

Of course not. Shuffle a deck of cards. If you did it properly, the new arrangement is unique. No deck of cards has ever been arranged like that before, and none will ever again, unless you deliberately preserve it. I just drew a scribble on a post-it note. Nobody else has a scribble quite like it, or ever will again, after I throw it away. Every time a snowflake melts, something beautiful and unique is lost forever.…

If you did it properly In this case, you've just wiped out your whole statement with weasel words. What does it mean to shuffle a deck properly ?

This is what it means to not shuffle a deck properly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuffling#False_shuffles

Re: Is Life Special Just Because It’s Rare?

#44

Post by lhorie »

bduerst wrote: post #14
philh wrote: post #8

Of course not. Shuffle a deck of cards. If you did it properly, the new arrangement is unique. No deck of cards has ever been arranged like that before, and none will ever again, unless you deliberately preserve it. I just drew a scribble on a post-it note. Nobody else has a scribble quite like it, or ever will again, after I throw it away. Every time a snowflake melts, something beautiful and unique is lost forever.…

The order in a deck of cards is unique, but it's not complex . The nucleotide sequence in a chromosome is unique and complex. An analogy of your comparison would be comparing a single sentence to the sum of mankind's written works, with the latter being life. A complex, organized source of information like that is special.

Something doesn't need to be complex to be special. Consider this card deck order:

  8C KH 3S 10D 2C 7H 9S 5D QC 4H AS 6D
  JC 8H KS 3D 10C 2H 7S 9D 5C QH 4S AD
  6C JH 8S KD 3C 10H 2S 7D 9C 5H QS 4D
  AC 6H JS 8D KC 3H 10S 2D 7C 9H 5S QD
  4C AH 6S JD
As far as mathematics go, it's as probabilistically likely as any other sequence, but among deck orders, this particular sequence is special because not only it happens more often than most other deck orders, but it even has a name. As it turns out, that sequence can be easily reconstructed from a mnemonic and it's often used in magic tricks.

Re: Is Life Special Just Because It’s Rare?

#45

Post by meric »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #5
amelius wrote: post #2

The trick lies in the fact that life forms have no obvious boundary. The fact that two creatures are two creatures, and not just a single creature is something that is just endowed to them by us humans. If one of the creatures dies, does it really die, or does the combination of the two creatures just loses half of its brain cells? That second view is just as valid. Hence, in that second view, nothing really ever die…

This way we could say the entire universe is just a big chemical reaction. It wouldn't even be an incorrect view. It just wouldn't be useful for anything. This is the real value of models and concepts we use - not their grand philosophical sense, but how useful they are. We set up boundaries between creatures, define concepts like life and death because they allow us to understand and predict the world better. It's u…

We set up boundaries between creatures, define concepts like life and death because they allow us to understand and predict the world better.

I think that's what "eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge" means. If the universe is unity, when you die, the universe is still here. As Christians put it, "One with God". If you see yourself as separate to the universe, when you die, you're dead. And Hell = consumed by ego, which likes comparing you and others.

That's going into philosophy, and it's useful in so far it helps people feel content.

Re: Is Life Special Just Because It’s Rare?

#46

Post by bduerst »

lhorie wrote: post #44
bduerst wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The order in a deck of cards is unique, but it's not complex . The nucleotide sequence in a chromosome is unique and complex. An analogy of your comparison would be comparing a single sentence to the sum of mankind's written works, with the latter being life. A complex, organized source of information like that is special.

Something doesn't need to be complex to be special. Consider this card deck order: 8C KH 3S 10D 2C 7H 9S 5D QC 4H AS 6D JC 8H KS 3D 10C 2H 7S 9D 5C QH 4S AD 6C JH 8S KD 3C 10H 2S 7D 9C 5H QS 4D AC 6H JS 8D KC 3H 10S 2D 7C 9H 5S QD 4C AH 6S JD As far as mathematics go, it's as probabilistically likely as any other sequence, but among deck orders, this particular sequence is special because not only it happens more oft…

But sequence is unique, but could arguably randomly come up like you say. My point was that biological information is both complex and unique, which makes it special.

Re: Is Life Special Just Because It’s Rare?

#47

Post by hawleyal »

the_economist wrote: post #12
hawleyal wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say there are much more complex phenomena than a few bajillion atoms and electricity bouncing flailing about on the surface of a mostly-water planet.

Such as? Here is David's Christian's ranking of complexity in the Universe: http://padlet.com/dpetersen/c6c8g49ynt19 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_History#Complexity.2C_ener...

LOL Christian presents a laughably human-centric view of things.
Post reply on HN