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Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

nytimes.com

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Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#81

Post by hyperpape »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #18
Apocryphon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism is just shorthand for prejudices such as ethnocentrism, Orientalism, Othering.

I have never, never seen anti-Christianity been referred to as "racism" by anyone, not even evangelicals and fundamentalists. It would make large swaths of criticism of Christianity (not to mention many extreme metal bands) post-facto racist. "Othering" is far more general than racism, and relates to identity as a whole, not a specific racial identity.

I agree that's a bad definition.

However, one aspect that makes a difference is many Americans' picture of a Muslim is someone with vaguely brown skin. The people who engage in anti-Muslim hate crimes sometimes end up attacking Sikhs, non-Muslim Indians, even Coptic-Christians. https://www.splcenter.org/news/2011/03/29/anti-muslim-incide...

In a case where a culture conceptualized all and only White people as Christians and stereotyped or attacked them, I would see no problem calling that racism.

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#83

Post by dba7dba »

Homeland is a TV show, for entertainment. No one is happy with a lot of documentaries, the TV shows that are meant to get at facts and not just entertain.

So while I don't want to give Homeland a free ride, it'd be too much to expect more from the show.

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#84

Post by merpnderp »

zhemao wrote: post #42
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the show depicts largely terrorists and criminals. Activists apparently want long diatribes about how wonderful Arab and Muslim families are to "balance" it out. Homeland isn't a documentary. Its a dramatic show about national security and as such it will probably not paint a realistic picture of the average Muslim, because average Muslims aren't really what its supposed to portray. The same way professional wr…

Well, it apparently can't even depict terrorists correctly, because suggesting that Al Qaeda and Hezbollah would ever work together is just ludicrous. And I can totally see why Lebanese would be pissed off at seeing Hamra street completely misrepresented in that way. And even if the show isn't supposed to depict "average Muslims", do you really think all the viewers of the show will get that nuance? If all of the Ara…

Some of the Arab/Iranian/Pakistani characters are critical members of the portrayed CIA team.

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#85

Post by merpnderp »

elif wrote: post #48
veeti wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the same episode, a drone strike kills tens of innocent people. If you think that is "propaganda", you obviously weren't paying any attention.

I won't attempt to address this show which I haven't seen, but in general, propaganda can function to normalize or justify the obscene. Through presenting two sides of an issue, it gives the illusion of honesty or fairness. Even if that strike was represented as a complete mistake with no justification, it has normalized drone strikes simply by exposing them as a thing you witness in sympathy from the comfort of your…

There was nothing normalizing about their depiction. Most of the aftermath is showing a father's response to his dead young child. If anything it reinforces how horrific drone strikes on civilians are.

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#86

Post by lotyrin »

ashwinaj wrote: post #80
lotyrin wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And matches are perfectly safe, if you don't happen to be surrounded by flammables. The simple facts are that we have a huge amount of ignorance in the audience for this show, this show takes advantage of that (it is targeted to folks who are not informed about the places and people and groups depicted, otherwise it wouldn't take such extreme artistic license with them) and will have an effect on the views of its aud…

> And matches are perfectly safe, if you don't happen to be surrounded by flammables. My point goes back to personal responsibility. Whose fault is it if you're surrounded by flammables labeled appropriately? The analogy is that this is labeled as a "TV show" not a documentary.

You seem to have gotten caught on the analogy and failed to read my argument.

It doesn't matter if something is fiction, the reality is that fiction has a great impact on its audience, and that impact comes with proportional responsibility.

It does not matter what ideal rational actors should theoretically do when it comes to managing their opinions and knowledge about the world in the face of fiction, we don't have any of those.

We don't get to pretend society works a particular way, just so we can justify bad television that uses real places and real names of groups in a farcical way because it's capitalizing on a contemporary societal phenomenon of fear and ignorance of those things.

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#88

Post by callumlocke »

veeti wrote: post #27
mtgx wrote: post #19

I hope next they protest how much of a propaganda tool for the U.S. government this show is - a cake for drone striking someone? Really?

In the same episode, a drone strike kills tens of innocent people. If you think that is "propaganda", you obviously weren't paying any attention.

I think the parent comment is ironic. Either that or he's trolling.

Re: Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist

#89

Post by pessimizer »

Archio wrote: post #65
nahiluhmot wrote: post #43

Pretty telling that nobody on the set can read Arabic.

Pretty telling that what? The show is racist? I think there might be more nuance involved.

As racist as it would be if there were a US show based on how the French are scary, and no one involved with the show spoke French. It means that they are likely exclusively trading in stereotypes and Western orientialist imagery and tropes. I've never seen the show.
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