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Theranos Has Struggled with Blood Tests

wsj.com

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Re: Theranos Has Struggled with Blood Tests

#71

Post by msravi »

cjbenedikt wrote: post #62

https://theranos.com/news/posts/statement-from-theranos

> The sources relied on in the article today were never in a position to understand Theranos’ technology and know nothing about the processes currently employed by the company.

Note the use of the word "current". Implicitly, they're admitting that the process has changed since the time of the former employees, and they're not disputing the process described by those former employees. Which means, that at some point they indulged in rigging proficiency testing.

Re: Theranos Has Struggled with Blood Tests

#73

Post by abb1234etric »

cowsandmilk wrote: post #56
danso wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be missing the part where former employees claim that the company skirted federal regulations by using other machines for the proficiency testing, while using the Edison machines for patient testing. The accuracy of those claims have some relevance to the kind of speculation you hope to make.

exactly, the dilution of samples needs to move to the forefront of the discussion. Theranos: (1) takes a much smaller amount of blood, claiming they will use the Edison machine to analyze it (2)(a) sometimes uses the Edison machine, whose accuracy is disputed (2)(b) sometimes dilutes the sample to test using a regular machine. The dilution moves normal concentrations outside the range of detection of the machine, so…

This seems to me to be the most premise summary of what likely happened. Startup raises a ton of money for a new model that isn't ready yet.. so they use existing machines to fake it till they figure out how to get the Edison machine to work. Not terribly dissimilar in some way from jet.com just buying goods you ordered off of other sites and paying for the difference, in hopes they can test the market, build a brand and eventually make their model work. Problem is that it isn't obvious that scale helps you reach the ultimate goal here (unless you reason that more money/longer runway = higher likelihood of success). Unfortunately for Theranos, actual lives are at stake here and there is a lot of regulation in the medical space for good reason.

Re: Theranos Has Struggled with Blood Tests

#74

Post by gcanyon »

Gatsky wrote: post #50

Aside from whether their technology actually works or not, the central premise that cheaper, easier and more frequent testing will improve outcomes is unproven. There are many potential downsides. It might increase health spending through extra doctor visits, the need for repeat testing and more invasive and expensive investigations. But will it actually make anyone's life better? Bear in mind that even a single, obv…

On the other hand you have things like blood glucose testing, which mid-twentieth century happened only in a doctor's office, when today diabetics do it several times daily. Obviously not all tests are going to be like that, and I haven't looked at the list of tests Theranos is performing, so all, some, or none of their tests might be similar.

Re: Theranos Has Struggled with Blood Tests

#76

Post by the_economist »

pkaye wrote: post #58
ghufran_syed wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdata: I'm a physician, and get tests done for myself and my family at the Theranos place in Palo Alto, for around $5/test (vs $50 for other labs), and I have no concern about the accuracy of the tests. This abstract discusses some of the possible reasons for variation in test results: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10887452 Of course, none of this proves that the tests are reliable (consistent) and accurate,…

Do you know if anyone can get their blood tested or do you need an doctor's order? Their prices seem quick cheap and it would be nice to get some periodic readings for my chronic health problems.

New Arizona Law Allows Lab Tests Without Doctor's Order: http://kjzz.org/content/161108/new-arizona-law-allows-lab-te...

As far as I know, Theranos is in two places: Palo Alto and Arizona. It seems like Arizona is passing laws to allow testing without a doctor's order. California, you still need one.

Re: Theranos Has Struggled with Blood Tests

#77

Post by Nicholas_C »

cowsandmilk wrote: post #55
sremani wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the article, this quote hit me >> Details of the Theranos technology have not been disclosed to scientific journals and for this reason it is not possible to comment. << So they have handful of tests that are FDA approved and then their protocols or technology never went through scientific scrutiny, but the whole company is valued $9billion? This is disconcerting.

What I find disconcerting is the faith Walgreen's has put in them. To be honest, their revenue plus the partnership with Walgreen's likely justifies the valuation. It is just that Walgreen's shouldn't partner with organizations for testing that aren't on solid scientific footing.

I would hope Walgreens at least did some due diligence.

Re: Theranos Has Struggled with Blood Tests

#79

Post by erroneousfunk »

frozenport wrote: post #7

>>Theranos claims that the usual delay of testing in centralized laboratories is approximately 3 days and that they will generate and deliver their data much faster (e.g., within 4 h). The 3-day delay claim is not accurate. The bulk of laboratory testing in centralized laboratories is completed within an hour or two (calculated from time of sample collection to time of results posting for physician review). For examp…

When I get blood tests done at my GP's office, they sit around until the next morning when the guy from the lab picks them up. Then they go to the lab, where they might wait in a queue until the next day. Then the tests are run, then they send the results electronically to my GP's office. It takes about three days from the time blood is drawn from me, until the time my GP makes a recommendation based on the test results, and a big part of that is because of the the remote lab testing.

Re: Theranos Has Struggled with Blood Tests

#80

Post by NN88 »

downandout wrote: post #44

Like many of us, Elizabeth Holmes is smart and had a good idea to change a large industry. Unlike many of us, she has managed to convince several billionaires to make her one too, based almost solely on the strength of her idea. I don't know how much money she has personally taken off the table during her funding rounds, but for her sake I hope it's enough to last her for the rest of her life. I don't doubt that she…

is she smart?
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