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Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

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21–30 of 52 posts

Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#21

"Meanwhile, Russian officials denied the allegation. Officials of the producer of the Buk missile, Almaz-Antey, told a news conference on Tuesday that they had carried out their own analysis of traces found on the aircraft. They said even if the jet was shot down by a Buk, it was an old type that is no longer used by the Russian military. The official also hinted that the missile was fired from a village in the Donet…

I think Russia is aiming its obvious bullshit at Russians, where the media is entirely propaganda. Provided they don't actually admit it, they can spin it.

The message is different by channel. The propaganda is much more extreme on Russian-language media. In English, Spanish, Arabic, etc. RT and other propaganda media channels are trying to appear neutral and are mostly used to exploit anti-Americanism (anti-establishment sentiment in America).

Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#22
post #9
post #3

One crucial point made in this article which had somehow passed me by is how devoid of credibility the West's intelligence agencies have become. I know it has been known for a while since Snowden, but the implications are far-reaching. It has come to something when social media can point the same spotlight on whole armies doing things they would rather keep secret as it has done on politicians doing the same.

> how devoid of credibility the West's intelligence agencies have become. I know it has been known for a while since Snowden It's older than that. I remember 40 years ago it was possible that rather obvious facts (such as "you need to queue a long time to get basic consumer goods in the USRR") were dismissed simply because they could be labeled "CIA propaganda". In my country we even had an initiative for a "peace la…

> It's older than that. I remember 40 years ago it was possible that rather obvious facts (such as "you need to queue a long time to get basic consumer goods in the USRR") were dismissed simply because they could be labeled "CIA propaganda".

This was even scarier before that. Check out the following biography review[0]; it's worth the time to read. Some quotes:

"although it is clear to him that the Soviet economy is struggling, every dispatch they are given to send home declares that things are better than ever, that the Workers’ Paradise is even more paradisiacal than previously believed, that the evidence is in and Stalinism is the winner. It doesn’t matter what he makes of this, because anything he writes which deviates from the script is rejected by the censors, who ban him from sending it home. He is reduced to sending secret messages at the bottoms of people’s suitcases, only to find to his horror that even when they successfully reach the Guardian offices back in Britain, his bosses have no interest in publishing them because they offend the prejudices of its progressive readership.

(...)

His final break with the rest of the enlightened progressive world comes when he decides to do something that perhaps no other journalist in the entire Soviet Union had dared – to go off the reservation, so to speak, leave Moscow undercover, and see if he can actually get into the regions where rumors say some kind of famine might be happening. The plan goes without a hitch, he passes himself off as a generic middle-class Soviet, and he ends up in Ukraine right in the middle of Stalin’s Great Famine. He describes the scene – famished skeletons begging for crumbs, secret police herding entire towns into railway cars never to be seen again. At great risk to himself, he smuggles notes about the genocide out of the country, only to be met – once again – with total lack of interest. Guardian readers don’t look at the newspapers to hear bad things about the Soviet Union! Guardian readers want to hear about how the Glorious Future is already on its way! He is quickly sidelined in favor of the true stars of Soviet journalism, people like Walter Duranty, the New York Times‘s Russia correspondent, who wrote story after story about how prosperous and happy and well-fed the Soviets were under Stalin, and who later won the Pulitzer Prize for his troubles."

Guessing from the review, the book paints a scary picture of how West intellectualists basically fooled themselves and self-spun propaganda about the Soviet Union for decades.

[0] - http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/08/11/book-review-chronicles-...

Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#23
post #8
post #3

One crucial point made in this article which had somehow passed me by is how devoid of credibility the West's intelligence agencies have become. I know it has been known for a while since Snowden, but the implications are far-reaching. It has come to something when social media can point the same spotlight on whole armies doing things they would rather keep secret as it has done on politicians doing the same.

Wait, what? Western intelligence came to the conclusion pretty early on that Russian separatists were to blame -- only Russia's intelligence still contradicts the content of this article, insisting that Ukraine was at fault.

From the article:

"Such groups can be more nimble than government bureaucracies. They also have more credibility -- something that the intelligence agencies of some Western democracies have squandered with skewed findings, serial violations of privacy and repeated evasions of oversight. For one thing, because the material Higgins and others draw on is publicly available, anyone can check their findings."

Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bellingcat guy must like polonium tea. Brave dude.

For those who didn't get the reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvine...

We have a joke in Poland, about Russia's head of intelligence getting scolded by Putin for creating a mess.

- "Mówiłem, żeby mu dać tylko parę 'rad'!" ("I told you to only give him some 'advice'!")

- "Rad, polon, co za różnica towarzyszu?" ("Radium, polonium, what's the difference comrade?")

Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#26
Russian/rebel social media also played a role in all this, in a way that's not mentioned in this article.

There are some official and close-to-official social media accounts that are used by the Russian rebels to announce progress (Twitter, Facebook, VK) usually straight from the mouths of commanders and higher ups.

When MH-17 was downed they boasted about shooting down a Ukrainian plane only to find themselves quickly deleting all mention of it several hours later.

Those same accounts also boasted about acquiring a Buk missile launcher weeks earlier, but those status updates were also deleted.

Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#27

This makes me question Bellingcat's work somewhat: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/expert-criticizes-...

Well it is not like Russian state is not known for hiring paid trolls and having a well oiled propaganda machine + control of media whose main duties include seeding doubt, spreading fud, and fueling conspiracy.

Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#28

There's good on book on MH17 that was published a while ago: http://www.amazon.co.uk/MH17-story-shooting-Malaysian-airlin... It came to a similar conclusion as the dutch report, the main issue with the dutch report is it's too little to late and the government had repeatedly delayed publishing it while they searched for a way to indirectly accuse Russia. The dutch report is quite weak in that it won't take the next l…

The organization performing the investigation is responsible for investigating air crashes. It has to do that in an unbiased way. Now that they made their conclusions, it is up to another organization to actually find who is responsible.

It's actually quite logical to split these two types out. One is about who is responsible, another is pure about what happened.

Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#29
post #27

This makes me question Bellingcat's work somewhat: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/expert-criticizes-...

Well it is not like Russian state is not known for hiring paid trolls and having a well oiled propaganda machine + control of media whose main duties include seeding doubt, spreading fud, and fueling conspiracy.

I don't quite understand. Are you saying that the interview in Der Spiegel is Russian propaganda?

Re: Social Media Cracked the Case of MH17

#30

There's good on book on MH17 that was published a while ago: http://www.amazon.co.uk/MH17-story-shooting-Malaysian-airlin... It came to a similar conclusion as the dutch report, the main issue with the dutch report is it's too little to late and the government had repeatedly delayed publishing it while they searched for a way to indirectly accuse Russia. The dutch report is quite weak in that it won't take the next l…

They ordered the downing? That's probably not right is it? I thought the rebels didn't realise it was a passenger plane. I don't get why Russia just doesn't say "yep, we supplied it, but we didn't fire it, too bad so sad". Russia aren't alone in supplying rebel forces with weapons.
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