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On the manifestos killers leave behind

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Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#91

Post by hga »

junofan wrote: post #90
at-fates-hands wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't, but you can make a point to tell your children, which is what I've done. You have to stop the cycle early, or it does become pervasive and nobody wins in the end, nobody. Exhibit A is the Columbine massacre. The kids were bullied until they finally snapped and a lot of people lost their lives because everybody around them failed at stopping it. When my son told me he was being bullied, I showed him a few B…

Wow, this comment is really shocking to me. Wow, wow, wow. I hope your child turns out okay :/

Errr, one of the points of all this is to stand up to bullies, in this case in the tried and true fashion, and stop them before they push you too the breaking point. Helps that the vast majority of them, including the ones I've dealt with, get deterred real quickly when pain is on the menu, and often become somewhat friendly.

Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#92

Post by flycaliguy »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #82

I am convinced that the people who do these shootings do so because they have an ego that cannot cope with their societal impotence. That is, they think they should be more liked, more powerful, be able to get girls, be in charge of things, free from criticism, unable to be bullied (which is reasonable) etc... but aren't for any given reason. So their recourse is to prove to everyone how powerful they are by shooting…

With Facebook and other social media suspected of distorting people's perspective of their peer's social achievements... I wonder if a link can be drawn to recent mass shootings.

Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#93

Post by donw »

DanBC wrote: post #69
hga wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are different classes of "mass killings", Wikipedians aren't going to collect all the cases of where 4 or more people were killed, and my postings were not intended to discuss scale, just to refute the lie that this is a uniquely American phenomenon with 2000-~2012 examples. Which is not quite what you claimed, you said "overwhelmingly", and that's sufficiently vague I suspect it's a debatable point. Paywall st…

You tell me what you're counting as a mass killing, and then I can show you how that event is overwhelmingly something that happens in the US. You've pointed to less than two events per year for Europe for this century. How about six people killed? There have been 13 events in the US where six people were shot and killed since Jan 1 2013. You're wrong anyway. From your own post: > De Gelder, Kim, 20, Jan. 16/23,, 200…

That article cites 'shootingtracker.com' as a source, which is a known-false propaganda site, as it includes accidents with airsoft guns in their list of "mass shootings".

I have been shot by an airsoft gun. It stung a bit.

Since January 1st, 2013, Wikipedia shows six mass killings in the United States, two in China, and four in continental Europe.

Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#94

Post by _0ffh »

Is pervasive PUA language in articles now so commonplace that nobody even comments on it?

Is it a thing now to identify people with serious mental health problems with "betas", as if that was in any way a valid or helpful analysis?

Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#95

Post by gozo »

hga wrote: post #91
junofan wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, this comment is really shocking to me. Wow, wow, wow. I hope your child turns out okay :/

Errr, one of the points of all this is to stand up to bullies, in this case in the tried and true fashion, and stop them before they push you too the breaking point. Helps that the vast majority of them, including the ones I've dealt with, get deterred real quickly when pain is on the menu, and often become somewhat friendly.

That only works if you go to decent school were people have things to loose. Otherwise someone might very well end up dead or in prison. Adults can't manage violence, don't expect kids to.

Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#96

Post by DanBC »

agarden wrote: post #70
DanBC wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mass shootings are overwhelmingly a US problem, not rest of the first world problem. (There are a few exceptions). > but not being willing to do anything about those things but sit in their basement of choice and whine. Or go out and kill a bunch of people.

If you want to talk about people being shot, instead of just cases where civilians walk into a crowded place just to kill as many people as possible, then I think you need to take Syria, Iraq, Somalia, Palestine, and more into account. And I doubt, once you do that, that the US will still have the most mass shootings or carnage.

We need to define what a mass shooting is. Most people use "4 people or more shot". A mass killing is "4 people or more killed". (A serial killing has cool down time between death).

By these definitions the US has more mass killings than those other countries.

>The U.S. represents less than 5% of the 7.3 billion global population but accounted for 31% of global mass shooters during the period from 1966 to 2012, more than any other country, Mr. Lankford said, adding that he defines a mass shooter as one who killed at least four victims. The 90 killers who carried out mass shootings in the U.S. amounted to five times as many as the next highest country, the Philippines, according to his research.

Adjust it to per capita, and the US still leads the world in mass killings and mass shootings.

The US is worse than the shitholes you list.

Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#97

Post by hga »

gozo wrote: post #95
hga wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Errr, one of the points of all this is to stand up to bullies, in this case in the tried and true fashion, and stop them before they push you too the breaking point. Helps that the vast majority of them, including the ones I've dealt with, get deterred real quickly when pain is on the menu, and often become somewhat friendly.

That only works if you go to decent school were people have things to loose. Otherwise someone might very well end up dead or in prison. Adults can't manage violence, don't expect kids to.

Well, adults ultimately manage violence with lethal force, which is essentially what you're saying.

However, I submit to you that all this is a vital and psychologically essential lesson for kids to learn: recognizing standard issue bullies and dealing with them per the above, and, ideally not too young, recognizing those for whom this won't work. Bullying won't stop after e.g. K-12, I myself had to use a credible threat of lethal force to stop an attempt to feloniously bully me in college, and while it ought to move out of the physical realm once you enter the "real world", bullies abound there as well.

Come to think of it, there was a dangerous, held back some so he was bigger than almost all of us, retarded boy who attended my school in 3rd grade plus or minus, who I treated as a potentially lethal threat, and never even thought to applied the treatment for normal bullies. Instead, that provided a lesson in gathering allies and all that.

Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#98

Post by at-fates-hands »

junofan wrote: post #90
at-fates-hands wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't, but you can make a point to tell your children, which is what I've done. You have to stop the cycle early, or it does become pervasive and nobody wins in the end, nobody. Exhibit A is the Columbine massacre. The kids were bullied until they finally snapped and a lot of people lost their lives because everybody around them failed at stopping it. When my son told me he was being bullied, I showed him a few B…

Wow, this comment is really shocking to me. Wow, wow, wow. I hope your child turns out okay :/

What's so shocking about it? Have you ever been bullied? Ever had to fight someone?

Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#99

Post by agarden »

DanBC wrote: post #96
agarden wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to talk about people being shot, instead of just cases where civilians walk into a crowded place just to kill as many people as possible, then I think you need to take Syria, Iraq, Somalia, Palestine, and more into account. And I doubt, once you do that, that the US will still have the most mass shootings or carnage.

We need to define what a mass shooting is. Most people use "4 people or more shot". A mass killing is "4 people or more killed". (A serial killing has cool down time between death). By these definitions the US has more mass killings than those other countries. >The U.S. represents less than 5% of the 7.3 billion global population but accounted for 31% of global mass shooters during the period from 1966 to 2012, more…

I am skeptical. The WSJ article[0] covering Lankford's claims has a graphic that shows none of those countries with even two mass shootings since 2000, including the Philippines. The Mother Jones[1] article says that only four countries broke double digits, and again, none of the countries I listed made the list. Or Mexico, which is widely reported to be rife with gang violence, including mass murders.

It appears that Lankford's paper[2] has not yet been published. When it is, and if it is available for free, we can look at the details of his claims.

[0] http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-leads-world-in-mass-shooting...

[1] http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/08/united-states-wo...

[2] http://adamlankford.com/research.htm

Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#100

Post by fit2rule »

Retra wrote: post #46
mathgenius wrote: post #10

I was picked on in school a fair amount. Some of it quite violent, and pervasive. At some point I got really fed up with one particular kid, and got myself a big stick. Luckily for him that stick broke cleanly in two upon first impact, otherwise i'm not sure what would have happened. After that things subsided somewhat. That kid threatened me more, but never did come after me again. Growing older I realise two things…

"First, those "jocks" that get all the girls, have (generalizing here) other very serious problems, are often emotionally stunted, angry at their dads, or whatever. " I highly doubt that this is true.

Anecdotal, but I would say in my experience its true. The jocks who got the gals in my teen youth have grown up to be quite the social misfits - jail time, drug abuse, kicked out of homes. This is a total generalization but its been a long-standing one: "nice guys finish last" .. etc.
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