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On the manifestos killers leave behind

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Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#31

Post by vezzy-fnord »

dropit_sphere wrote: post #27
devindotcom wrote: post #9

It's a very strange time, when anyone can reach anyone else (or any knowledge) instantly, but many use this as an opportunity to isolate themselves even further. It seems to happen a lot when the exceptionalism common to young white men runs straight into the reality that they are in fact un exceptional and what power they have is not just unearned but waning. The cognitive dissonance that results is, as we see over…

> what power they have is not just unearned but waning That's the interesting thing, though, isn't it? Leaving aside questions of "earned," is their power waning? Does it console Veronika Weiss or Katherine Cooper that we might have a woman as POTUS? I know no one is crusading for it but I will: when will we see equality in mass shootings? To put it in less obviously straw-man terms: why should women have to live in…

why should women have to live in fear when men don't?

They don't?

Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#32

Post by DanBC »

FussyZeus wrote: post #13

Who cares honestly? It's the same rehashed garbage. First world problems galore. Not getting enough sex, not having enough money, not making enough friends but not being willing to do anything about those things but sit in their basement of choice and whine. Clarifying: The first world problem I'm talking about are the things the shooters cite as reasons for their actions, not the shootings themselves.

Mass shootings are overwhelmingly a US problem, not rest of the first world problem. (There are a few exceptions).

> but not being willing to do anything about those things but sit in their basement of choice and whine.

Or go out and kill a bunch of people.

Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#33

Post by [deleted] »

FussyZeus wrote: post #13

Who cares honestly? It's the same rehashed garbage. First world problems galore. Not getting enough sex, not having enough money, not making enough friends but not being willing to do anything about those things but sit in their basement of choice and whine. Clarifying: The first world problem I'm talking about are the things the shooters cite as reasons for their actions, not the shootings themselves.

[deleted]

Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#34

Post by 0x49 »

nickysielicki wrote: post #21

I link to this far too often, but it's relevant to so many discussions had on this site. The Great On-Line Equalizer Date: 21 Mar 1996 https://subgenius.com/bigfist/answers/articles2/X0095_The_Great_On-Line_Eq.html Relevant quote: """ All the people who are invisible in the normal world (the world run by the rich and powerful), all those people you can dismiss on the street as powerless and harmless -- ALL THOSE PEOP…

This quote has a lot of truth to it. I think the issue we now face is that it gives EVERYBODY power. Even people that shouldn't ever have it in the first place.

Many of these hashtag protests are purely based on emotion and in some instances, don't even have enough information to make a claim either way (or are based on rumor/false information). This is why our court systems were invented in the first place: to prevent mobs of people from attacking innocent individuals and calling it 'justice'.

Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#35

Post by dropit_sphere »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #31
dropit_sphere wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what power they have is not just unearned but waning That's the interesting thing, though, isn't it? Leaving aside questions of "earned," is their power waning? Does it console Veronika Weiss or Katherine Cooper that we might have a woman as POTUS? I know no one is crusading for it but I will: when will we see equality in mass shootings? To put it in less obviously straw-man terms: why should women have to live in…

why should women have to live in fear when men don't? They don't?

It was definitely a straw man. I'm a dude and I don't live in fear of a shooter, and I don't get the impression many women do either.

My point is: We're quick to claim victory as society grows more tolerant and race/sex matter less, but I think we claim it too soon. That young white men feel entitled to shoot people when their lives don't work out (and apparently others don't) is as real an imbalance as wage gaps, etc.

Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#36

Post by hga »

tunesmith wrote: post #24

I think this is a good read when combined with the Gladwell article from the New Yorker ( http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/19/thresholds-of-v... ). I'm not against gun control efforts or better mental health efforts (whatever that might mean) but I think that both articles suggest that a lot of progress can be made in figuring out how to arrest this kind of societal disconnect. In the days after Columbine, t…

Hacker News discussion on the Gladwell article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10380513

Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#37

Post by hga »

DanBC wrote: post #32
FussyZeus wrote: post #13

Who cares honestly? It's the same rehashed garbage. First world problems galore. Not getting enough sex, not having enough money, not making enough friends but not being willing to do anything about those things but sit in their basement of choice and whine. Clarifying: The first world problem I'm talking about are the things the shooters cite as reasons for their actions, not the shootings themselves.

Mass shootings are overwhelmingly a US problem, not rest of the first world problem. (There are a few exceptions). > but not being willing to do anything about those things but sit in their basement of choice and whine. Or go out and kill a bunch of people.

Not even close; here's an accounting I did covering just Western Europe just for this century as of a little over 2 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4970408 and the same with some discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5070201

Add e.g. Canada and "[it's] overwhelmingly a US problem" is even less true.

Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#38

Post by at-fates-hands »

cuberator wrote: post #15
justinator wrote: post #8

...what about the Unabomber?

He doesnt have much in common with the people mentioned in this article, except Breivik maybe, though i might be completely wrong since i havent read up on the Unabomber.

He's a total outlier since he had two very well documented issues that occurred in his life that affected him profoundly - and I can't blame him for feeling the way he did after either.

The first was at 9 months after bieng born, he got a bad case of the hives and was isolated from his family, with no visitors. This time is the most important time for newborns to bond with their parents and he was deprived of this. His treatments lasted over 8 months which affected him profoundly:

"His mother wrote in March 1943, "Baby home from hospital and is healthy but quite unresponsive after his experience"

The other was a psychology experiment he participated in while at Harvard which people believe fueled his anti-science views:

During Kaczynski’s sophomore year at Harvard, in 1959, he was recruited for a psychological experiment that, unbeknownst to him, would last three years. The experiment involved psychological torment and humiliation, a story I include in my book Mind Wars: Brain Research and the Military in the 21st Century.

The Harvard study aimed at psychic deconstruction by humiliating undergraduates and thereby causing them to experience severe stress

source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/impromptu-man/201205/ha...

The Atlantic had a good story on the experiment as well: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/06/harvard-...

Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#39

Post by manachar »

cuberator wrote: post #11

Very well written and interesting. While some people put the blame on firearms (lets not turn this into a debate on gun control) i believe that its the media attention that is the biggest culprit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4

"Let's not turn this into a debate on BLANK, instead let's talk about my pet theory BLANK".

Seems like that's the only constant after any sort of horrific tragedy. It becomes grist in the mill for people to push their pre-existing agendas.

For some it has been a push for greater gun control. For others it has been a push for greater funding and understanding of mental health. For others, you blame media attention.

Personally, I view these events as "side-effects" of our society. And we're basically loathe to examine it too deeply as it can call into question some deeply held parts of American culture.

Re: On the manifestos killers leave behind

#40

Post by Retric »

mathgenius wrote: post #10

I was picked on in school a fair amount. Some of it quite violent, and pervasive. At some point I got really fed up with one particular kid, and got myself a big stick. Luckily for him that stick broke cleanly in two upon first impact, otherwise i'm not sure what would have happened. After that things subsided somewhat. That kid threatened me more, but never did come after me again. Growing older I realise two things…

I am sure this is way far too late for most people on HN, but there is some useful advice that tends to work.

Usually, the most popular people can pick on a wide range of people and don't focus on any one person. It is the people in the lower middle that have fewer targets below them that get really mean. As strange as this sounds moving slightly up the hierarchy, but not to high is the best way to avoid lots of negative attention from any one person. Granted, this assumes there is nothing specifically unusual about someone.

PS: Sorry, if this comes off as victim baiting, but thinking of high school as a pack of chimps works surprisingly well.

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