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19th Century Marriage Manuals: Advice for Young Husbands

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101–110 of 115 posts

Re: 19th Century Marriage Manuals: Advice for Young Husbands

#101
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never viewed sexism this way. But now that I am taking this perspective I can't help but notice how some to many women play a part in this as well. To put it a bit blunt and simplified: a considerable amount of women want to be treated like a princess. I guess those type of fantasies are an exaggeration of how a woman should've been treated in the early Victorian era. Another variant that I have experienced is the…

One of the basic things to understand in sociology and social psychology is that what people want is often shaped by what they are encouraged to want (and it's very easy to make people want something, as verified in psychology experiments). This is why modern feminism doesn't concentrate on the "want". Not because it's not important (it's very important!), but because it's hard to separate cause and effect, especiall…

I agree with the ideas you stated about social psychology & sociology. What people want is shaped by other people their encouragement. Thanks for stating it, I'm noticing I have a lot of implicit assumptions lying around there.

So it is indeed hard to separate cause and effect, I'm wondering if we need to, since cause and effect might go both ways here in a feedback loop. I'm very inclined to believe this myself (one of my implicit assumptions, perhaps even a bias). Cultural notions reinforces what people want, which reinforce the culture. So allowing to reframe yourself to want something different is definitely a course of action that one could take. As is changing other people their behavior (although it has some really difficult challenges IMO, it's easier to change yourself in my experience).

'feminism is not concerned with who "contributes" what to sexism' "can they later be said to be contributing to their own subjugation?" A pragmatic form of feminism that I have experienced myself is that feminists need to take care of their own personal development. This also means that people who are aware of sexist actions and view the need to change it, need to change themselves if they have habits conforming to old views. In that sense, feminism is concerned with who contributes (behaviorally) to sexism, because it gives a lense to look within oneself to change behaviour contributing to sexism. Knowing your gender role and in which way you conform to it is a handy tool to have in general for self-reflection.

"and when we say that some action is sexist we mean that it contributes to sexism; the action itself can be completely free of any ill intent." <-- Thanks for the clarification. I do admit that my understanding of sexism is not as laser focused as I'd like it to be.

Re: 19th Century Marriage Manuals: Advice for Young Husbands

#102
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In our society we're seen as weak if we cry. Isn't this the case in most societies? My sense from history is that is only acceptable for men to cry at extreme events -- such as death of a wife/child/brother, or the loss of a kingdom. The other common trope for crying is if a peasant or low-level official is begging the forgiveness from a king who is about to terminate him. But in the modern society such tragedies h…

Actually, I my understanding is its perfectly acceptable in many Middle-Eastern countries for men to cry openly. They'll also hold another mans hand while having a conversation with him apparently.

In older U.S films you can see men lock arms while walking and speaking. It wasn't an uncommon occurrence up until the 1950's or so.

It's still a common occurrence in Korea as well, so it isn't just the middle-east.

Re: 19th Century Marriage Manuals: Advice for Young Husbands

#103
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the basic things to understand in sociology and social psychology is that what people want is often shaped by what they are encouraged to want (and it's very easy to make people want something, as verified in psychology experiments). This is why modern feminism doesn't concentrate on the "want". Not because it's not important (it's very important!), but because it's hard to separate cause and effect, especiall…

I agree with the ideas you stated about social psychology & sociology. What people want is shaped by other people their encouragement. Thanks for stating it, I'm noticing I have a lot of implicit assumptions lying around there. So it is indeed hard to separate cause and effect, I'm wondering if we need to, since cause and effect might go both ways here in a feedback loop. I'm very inclined to believe this myself (one…

> do you mean all forms of feminism? Or just the 3rd wave?

Different forms of feminism differ in their views on specific issues, not on the basic idea that women are allotted less power in society. Differences stem from various sources. One is historical or circumstantial: when women were overtly discriminated against by the law, targets and priorities were clearer. Another is awareness: leaders of movements for change always tend to be among those who are relatively most powerful in their group. They can therefore be blind to the plight of those who are qualitatively less powerful than them. Yet another is that inherent difficulty in interpreting wishes in a society which shapes them. I'll just note that some anti-feminist views that try to simplify things, say stuff like, why not just assume that everyone has free will and everyone's choices are equally free? The answer to that is that research has clearly shown this is not the case.

> Even if someone would be brainwashed and completely programmed to destroy the world, then IMO that person would still contribute to destroying the world if acted towards that goal.

Absolutely, but there is no clear programmer and programmed. We are all equally programmers and programs, and equally “emotionally” innocent of the situation. Everyone, of course, is responsible for their own actions, but they’re actions at once are shaped by others’ and shape others’. The only relevant distinction is that some have power and some don’t, and as change is better carried out by those with power, they carry most of the responsibility. OTOH, those with power, of course, are less interested in changing the situation. Not just because they don’t want to yield power, but also because they don’t see the problem.

> A pragmatic form of feminism that I have experienced myself is that feminists need to take care of their own personal development.

Of course, and this, BTW, is something that often gets them a lot of scorn. But it is important to realize that change is only accomplished when those who work for it attain enough power. That power could be in numbers or in changing the mind of the powerful.

Re: 19th Century Marriage Manuals: Advice for Young Husbands

#105
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old fashion. :-) But, more seriously, as a counter, I've spent most of my adult life trying to be less 'manly' and more male (xy-chromosomer ). The western traditions of what it means to be 'a man' have not made my life better. Instead, they've given me anxiety, panic attacks, and caused a lot of feigned aggression, defensiveness, self medication, and regret. I'm not against tradition, and I have a lot of respect for…

Similar experience here - I have some "old fashioned" ideas but also a lot of progressive ones, I don't think they need be mutually exclusive. One thing I've realised over the past few years (I'm 22) is the importance of feeling masculine. Not in the generic socially prescribed sense necessarily, but in my own way, that took a lot of contemplation about "what makes me feel masculine?" and obviously the specifics will…

I'm glad to hear of more and more young people feeling this way. As a female who is a little bit older than you, I get worried about some of the negative effects of the younger generations being too gender-neutral. As an example, my mother and I both have a condition where we tend to get dizzy ("fainting spells"). That's one very small example of where we need to be feminine and allow men to help us out.

Re: 19th Century Marriage Manuals: Advice for Young Husbands

#106
My parents have a pretty Biblical marriage in a number of ways. It's beautiful and has made me wish I believed in that doctrine just in order to have something like that. They believe, much like the article/manual states, that the man is the head of the household. However, he always consults the woman and in caring for her, does not make decisions that are harmful to her or cause her distress. Obviously it's not an either-or scenario, but it seems to work much better than other marriages I've seen where both people are so focused on what they want for themselves.

Re: 19th Century Marriage Manuals: Advice for Young Husbands

#107
post #58

From the article: > Indeed, in many conservative religious denominations, > the same tenets are echoed today. While I'm not going to claim I hold the same tenets as a book I've never read, I guess that I'm in one of the "conservative religious denominations" which the author is indicating here. I can certainly see some resemblance between a few of the examples cited from the book and my current (religiously-inspired)…

There was a great comment on metafilter by `a fiendish thingy` a few months back about one interpretation of this idea of headship: I have two friends (who are married) who believe in biblical standards of the husband being the head of the household. HOWEVER. They are also outspoken feminists (both of them), and their belief in marital headship is based on their belief that a man’s job as the head of household who ha…

Thanks, that's quite insightful. It is, I believe, an excellent example of being able to take nearly any biblical, (or talmudic, or quranic(sp?)) passage and bend it to any particular moral framework (in this case feminism).

Re: 19th Century Marriage Manuals: Advice for Young Husbands

#108
post #20
post #3

Call me old fashioned, but as a father and husband I do try to act this way: "He should always be ready to sacrifice his present personal pleasure to the future well-being of those who have the first and best claim to his regard.”

“The same law which imposes upon the husband the duty of supporting his wife, gives him a general and paramount claim to her obedience.” I bet you don't get this bit in return.

True, I don't, and wouldn't want it. And if you knew my wife, she'd kick my butt if I demanded it :)

Re: 19th Century Marriage Manuals: Advice for Young Husbands

#109
After 6 moths of Broken marriage, my husband left me with two kids, I felt like ending it all, i almost committed suicide because he left us with nothing, i was emotionally down all this while. Thanks to a man called Dr Aisabu of Aisabu temple which i met online. On one faithful day, as I was browsing through the internet, I came across several testimonies about this particular man. Some people testified that he brought their Ex lover back, some testified that he restores womb,cure cancer,and other sickness, some testified that he prayed to stop divorce and get a good paid job so on. He is amazing, i also come across one particular testimony, it was about a woman called Shannon , she testified about how he brought back her Ex lover in less than 2 days, and at the end of her testimony she dropped his email. (aisabulovespell@gmail.com) After reading all these, I decided to give it a try. I contacted him via email and explained my problem to him. In just 48hours, my husband came back to me. We resolved our issues, and we are even happier than ever. DR Aisabu you are a gifted man and thank you for everything you had done in my life. If you have a problem and you are looking for a real and genuine spell caster, Try him anytime, he is the answer to your problems. you can contact him on aisabulovespell@gmail.com,,,,,

Re: 19th Century Marriage Manuals: Advice for Young Husbands

#110
After 6 moths of Broken marriage, my husband left me with two kids, I felt like ending it all, i almost committed suicide because he left us with nothing, i was emotionally down all this while. Thanks to a man called Dr Aisabu of Aisabu temple which i met online. On one faithful day, as I was browsing through the internet, I came across several testimonies about this particular man. Some people testified that he brought their Ex lover back, some testified that he restores womb,cure cancer,and other sickness, some testified that he prayed to stop divorce and get a good paid job so on. He is amazing, i also come across one particular testimony, it was about a woman called Shannon , she testified about how he brought back her Ex lover in less than 2 days, and at the end of her testimony she dropped his email. (aisabulovespell@gmail.com) After reading all these, I decided to give it a try. I contacted him via email and explained my problem to him. In just 48hours, my husband came back to me. We resolved our issues, and we are even happier than ever. DR Aisabu you are a gifted man and thank you for everything you had done in my life. If you have a problem and you are looking for a real and genuine spell caster, Try him anytime, he is the answer to your problems. you can contact him on aisabulovespell@gmail.com,,,
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