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Why I Left the .NET Framework (2013)

blog.jonathanoliver.com

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Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework (2013)

#51

Post by sspiff »

dozzie wrote: post #10

> C# is awesome. I think it's a spectacular language. OCaml, Haskell and Lisp are spectacular. Erlang is spectacular. Tcl and Python are spectacular. C# is an OK-language at best. > I'm not aware of any non-Java JVM languages prior to the CLR [...] Except JVM/Java had JPython, JRuby, and Rhino (JavaScript) earlier. Those are interpreted, sure, but they were running inside JVM and talking to Java code already when .NE…

GNU Kawa (Scheme on Java) had its first public release I can find in 1998, with version 1.6. It compiles to Java bytecode since version 0.2, and is now at 2.0, and still actively maintained by the same single developer as far as I can tell.

It's pretty impressive, despite not being widely known.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework (2013)

#52

Post by cartoonfoxes »

dozzie wrote: post #10

> C# is awesome. I think it's a spectacular language. OCaml, Haskell and Lisp are spectacular. Erlang is spectacular. Tcl and Python are spectacular. C# is an OK-language at best. > I'm not aware of any non-Java JVM languages prior to the CLR [...] Except JVM/Java had JPython, JRuby, and Rhino (JavaScript) earlier. Those are interpreted, sure, but they were running inside JVM and talking to Java code already when .NE…

When you say Python is spectacular do you mean the language itself, or the language + libraries. Only Python 3, or 2 as well. While I've successfully used it for a few projects, I find Python the language to be a bit underwhelming.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework (2013)

#53

Post by Mikeb85 »

Const-me wrote: post #25

“traditional Windows devs are typically only good at Windows” — why? I developed for Windows, Nintendo, iOS, OSX… “NIX guys on the other hand are typically familiar with multiple operating systems” Nope, they aren’t familiar with Windows. Just an example, I only see *nix developers started using I/O completion ports (which is the best I/O strategy for a Windows network servers since Windows NT 3.51) only couple of ye…

> Before that, most Windows ports of cross-platform servers failed miserably.

No one cares about a Windows port of a cross-platform server because most will just deploy to a Linux or BSD server instance anyway...

People only really care about Windows GUI apps...

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework (2013)

#54

Post by andyana »

Const-me wrote: post #25

“traditional Windows devs are typically only good at Windows” — why? I developed for Windows, Nintendo, iOS, OSX… “NIX guys on the other hand are typically familiar with multiple operating systems” Nope, they aren’t familiar with Windows. Just an example, I only see *nix developers started using I/O completion ports (which is the best I/O strategy for a Windows network servers since Windows NT 3.51) only couple of ye…

I have to agree with the author: the Window's guy are usually the ones focused on Window's only solutions. Like, for example, a Windows admin having not heard of nmap. This is common.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework (2013)

#55

Post by matwood »

vinceguidry wrote: post #44
V-2 wrote: post #20

Some of this criticism was outdated already, or has gone out of date since. WebForms (with their underlying concept of abstracting away how web really works) were already in decline two years ago, replaced by MVC. As a former C# developer, turned Android developer, of course I have to admit there is some walled garden mentality among .NET devs, but I think they get stigmatized for that way more than average. If a Rub…

> If a Rubyist never sticks nose outside their beloved technology stack, noone makes such a big deal out of it. To be fair, Rails is amazing , the most cutting-edge web framework out there, and it's settling into adulthood nicely. The Ruby ecosystem is so perfectly suited to web development that one hardly needs to go elsewhere to get what one needs. Whatever you could need is right at hand. The .NET dev sitting acro…

> The .NET dev sitting across from me doesn't even use legit source control.

So only .NET devs are bad? Got it.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework (2013)

#56

Post by edgyswingset »

vinceguidry wrote: post #44
V-2 wrote: post #20

Some of this criticism was outdated already, or has gone out of date since. WebForms (with their underlying concept of abstracting away how web really works) were already in decline two years ago, replaced by MVC. As a former C# developer, turned Android developer, of course I have to admit there is some walled garden mentality among .NET devs, but I think they get stigmatized for that way more than average. If a Rub…

> If a Rubyist never sticks nose outside their beloved technology stack, noone makes such a big deal out of it. To be fair, Rails is amazing , the most cutting-edge web framework out there, and it's settling into adulthood nicely. The Ruby ecosystem is so perfectly suited to web development that one hardly needs to go elsewhere to get what one needs. Whatever you could need is right at hand. The .NET dev sitting acro…

I wouldn't let that personal experience bias your view. StackOverflow (often pointed to by .NET devs) is a prime example of engineers utilizing and pushing the limits of any tool you give them. I've also personally met and spoken with numerous .NET devs who are really good at what they do.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework (2013)

#57

Post by WorldWideWayne »

"In fact, I don't even use a mouse anymore--my hands are always on the keyboard or trackpad and I can gesture to my computer and actually have it respond--unlike Windows."

I use a keyboard all day with Windows. I can do every single thing that I need to do with just the keyboard, no problem.

I also use Gnome 3 and OS X and I honestly don't think keyboard support is as good in either of those. So I am sure that I don't know what this gentleman is talking about.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework (2013)

#58

Post by justathrow2k »

vinceguidry wrote: post #44
V-2 wrote: post #20

Some of this criticism was outdated already, or has gone out of date since. WebForms (with their underlying concept of abstracting away how web really works) were already in decline two years ago, replaced by MVC. As a former C# developer, turned Android developer, of course I have to admit there is some walled garden mentality among .NET devs, but I think they get stigmatized for that way more than average. If a Rub…

> If a Rubyist never sticks nose outside their beloved technology stack, noone makes such a big deal out of it. To be fair, Rails is amazing , the most cutting-edge web framework out there, and it's settling into adulthood nicely. The Ruby ecosystem is so perfectly suited to web development that one hardly needs to go elsewhere to get what one needs. Whatever you could need is right at hand. The .NET dev sitting acro…

>The .NET dev sitting across from me doesn't even use legit source control.

Well, there you have it, this guy knows a .NET dev who doesn't use legit version control, so the whole .NET stack is a joke. QED.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework (2013)

#59

Post by jonathanoliver »

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #35
minionslave wrote: post #4

From the comments: "Why do people have to "leave" technologies? Why can't they just add new technologies to their arsenals without dramatic quitting blog posts? You don't see musicians who have just learned to play the guitar writing "why I'm leaving the piano" posts. Go is great; Node.js is great; some JVM languages are fine; .NET has a hell of a lot going for it too. Evaluate your options at the start of every proj…

Amusingly, in his "Why I love Go" [0] linked from that article he discusses using the right tool for the job: > Instead, this about the right tool for the job. (Could you imagine woodworkers getting into heated arguments about whether a screwdriver or hammer was better?) That would be about as insane as a woodworker writing a blog post about 'leaving the screwdriver' :) [0] http://blog.jonathanoliver.com/why-i-love-g…

OP here. Most of my work is server-side APIs where Go fits very, very well.

Re: Why I Left the .NET Framework (2013)

#60

Post by vinceguidry »

UK-AL wrote: post #50
vinceguidry wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If a Rubyist never sticks nose outside their beloved technology stack, noone makes such a big deal out of it. To be fair, Rails is amazing , the most cutting-edge web framework out there, and it's settling into adulthood nicely. The Ruby ecosystem is so perfectly suited to web development that one hardly needs to go elsewhere to get what one needs. Whatever you could need is right at hand. The .NET dev sitting acro…

I'm fairly sure you get beginner rails developers like that as well. We use GIT, BDD, TDD NServiceBus. Distributed load balanced services, that you can deploy independently. Micro services would be the buzzword for it. CQRS, ServiceStack, MVC, CI, Peer Code reviews We've never had any downtime, our code is clean, we support tons of users and don't really need lots of servers to support it. Not everybody is the same.

Well, not really, it would be more difficult to work without git and Github in Rails than it would be to work with it. Every tutorial starts you out with it. The big struggle these days is over TDD.
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