Laser Razor suspended by Kickstarter • Hacker News Board

Re: Laser Razor suspended by Kickstarter

#31

Post by dhimes » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 2:52 PM UTC

Kristine1975 wrote: post #22

dogma1138 wrote: post #19

It's sad that people thought it was real, forget about lasers and stuff it's basic common sense. A AAA battery doesn't store enough power to drive a laser capable of burning hair for any reasonable amount of time. When the laser isn't interrupted by the hair it has to go some where which means that heat is produced, if it can get something hot enough to burn the hair off it would get hot enough that you won't be able…

And laser hair removal doesn't even destroy the hairs, it uses the hairs to transmit heat to the hair follicles to destroy those. Destroying the hairs themselves would require even more energy.

I think laser hair removal is fundamentally different from what they were selling. I understand they are cutting the hair, not destroying the follicle.

Re: Laser Razor suspended by Kickstarter

#32

Post by rnovak » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 2:52 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #14

Pxtl wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heck, ask a programmer what a MOSFET is.

Not everybody got into programming on the soft side. But I agree with you that on average most programmers would not know what that is.

hashtag NotAllProgrammers? But I agree, the most fun I had in a job was working on embedded controllers and FPGA's.

Re: Laser Razor suspended by Kickstarter

#33

Post by vicbrooker » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 2:54 PM UTC

Their prototype reminds me of concept car designs that look great but don't have enough internal space for an engine. You'd maybe fit a AAA battery in the handle but I haven't even seen a torch that works without more juice.

Also, I was kind of suspicious when I noticed that more than half of the team have beards.

Re: Laser Razor suspended by Kickstarter

#34

Post by notahacker » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 2:56 PM UTC

dogma1138 wrote: post #19

It's sad that people thought it was real, forget about lasers and stuff it's basic common sense. A AAA battery doesn't store enough power to drive a laser capable of burning hair for any reasonable amount of time. When the laser isn't interrupted by the hair it has to go some where which means that heat is produced, if it can get something hot enough to burn the hair off it would get hot enough that you won't be able…

In fairness, most people have very little idea of basic physics, and this project has something in common with the sort of extremely dubious projects even investment professionals throw their weight behind: a founder with credible-sounding paper credentials.

Re: Laser Razor suspended by Kickstarter

#35

Post by ipsin » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 2:59 PM UTC

The name "Skarp" -- possibly in conjunction with "Kickstarter" -- immediately made me think of "scarper", i.e. the process of fleeing, ideally with the big bag of crowdfunding money.

Re: Laser Razor suspended by Kickstarter

#36

Post by dhimes » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 3:02 PM UTC

thomnottom wrote: post #15

dhimes wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's a single beam, yes. But what I find incredible is that it didn't work worth a damn. They were struggling to cut one hair at a time. Definitely not the razor I want. I wonder how much scamming goes on with kickstarter, etc. I've been involved in a couple of projects (as payer, not seller) and am batting about 1/3.

Just curious what you mean by 1/3. Is that how many have failed or how many you think are actual scams? Of the several I've done (of which there have been a few failures) there's only one that I would consider a scam (and they actually refunded the money). This one definitely sounds like a scam - especially how quickly they jumped to another platform without addressing the questions.

It's unclear to me also. I don't think I've actually been scammed, but it's possible and I'm kind of still waiting to find out.

There's a trick to it: asking for the money in stages, because if you make it to a stage then you don't have to give everything back.

So if you truly need $100K, you first set your goal to $15K, then $40K, then $75K, then $100K. That way if you fail to raise your $100K, you still get to keep your $75K or whatever your max was. It seems that it's against the spirit of the sites, but it works.

On the books it's a failure, but the folks walk away with the money. Is it a scam? I'm not sure.

Re: Laser Razor suspended by Kickstarter

#37

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 3:04 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #12

cabbeer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a testament to human stupidity that something this blatant managed to get $4M. That's a bit harsh. Most people don't understand technology on a functional level. Ask a "regular" person how programming, the internet or their mobile phone works and they won't be able to give you a technical explanation. In fact, most modern technology tries to hide the internal workings.. "it just works".

Heck, ask a programmer what a MOSFET is.

[deleted]

Re: Laser Razor suspended by Kickstarter

#38

Post by dogma1138 » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 3:06 PM UTC

dhimes wrote: post #31

Kristine1975 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And laser hair removal doesn't even destroy the hairs, it uses the hairs to transmit heat to the hair follicles to destroy those. Destroying the hairs themselves would require even more energy.

I think laser hair removal is fundamentally different from what they were selling. I understand they are cutting the hair, not destroying the follicle.

We understand that which means that the laser has to be more focused and deliver higher energy density.

Hair removal products are usually in the 20-50W ranges depending on wavelengths, the lightsaber wannabe hand held lasers are usually in the 500-2000 mW ranges and while those can burn skin and pop balloons they aren't powerful enough to burn hair.

I just don't see them having the technology to make this work, if they had it would have military applications way before shaving ones.

Just for size comparison this is a laser used for soft tissue removal https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Sharplan...

And even it won't burn hair because it works on tissue with high water content only.

Re: Laser Razor suspended by Kickstarter

#39

Post by RUG3Y » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 3:13 PM UTC

"Don't worry, it'll be ready by spring." lol

Re: Laser Razor suspended by Kickstarter

#40

Post by DannoHung » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 3:18 PM UTC

The thing that is weird about this case is that one of the principals, Morgan Gustavsson, is actually the dude who invented the real laser hair removal that is used in clinics and has been involved in dermatology since.

I don't know if he was actually involved in this project or not, but that was the one thing that made me think that this maybe wasn't 100% a scam?

Anyway, the implication they make in their pitch isn't that it's an open laser, but that it is a laser confined to a fiberoptic wire which leaks into the hair when pressed against it. Gustavsson has published some papers on this a few years ago in which he refers to the concept as a TRASER.

Of course, if this really is such a revolutionary advance, why go to Kickstarter to bring it to market? Why not traditional investors. Gotta be easier to get funding for a significant manufacturing outlay, right? Just to not have to sell a piece of the company? To justify that there is a market?

I personally don't have the background to make any judgments about this and I definitely don't understand the article he published, but I just thought it didn't completely fail the smell test.