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The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

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Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question though – why should citizens living abroad (i.e. not using US public services) pay for those services through taxation?

Because the US passport is opening the whole world to its bearers, the protection US gives its citizens abroad is outstanding, and if some bad guys try to cut your head for ransom - chances of being saved or avenged are substantial. Also US is still the sole global superpower.

Interestingly, the above reasons (and that perspective in general) are also the top reasons for a selected few to want to cut your head off.

Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#22
post #15
post #3

The government's actual "solution" to this problem has been to raise the fee of renouncing citizenship, from $450 to $2,350. No problem for wealthy people who want to avoid tax, but quite a large burden on everyone else. I plan to become a German citizen eventually, because I'm probably going to retire here. But thanks to Germany's disallowance of naturalized dual citizenship and America's tax complexities, that requ…

I keep seeing people repeat this, yet I can't find any information to confirm it. you can become a German citizen and still retain your US citizenship, from everything I've read and everyone I've asked on the matter.

See http://www.einbuergerungstest.biz/einbuergerung-allgemein/do.... Germany does allow that only in special cases.

Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#23
post #10
post #7

"Unfortunately, no single member of Congress represents these American constituents who together would rank, if a state, 12th in population size after New Jersey and before Virginia. By virtue of living abroad, they are second-class citizens, paying onerous tax burdens without representation." Compare this to Switzerland that considers its citizens living abroad part of the "fifth Switzerland" (there are 4 official l…

I don't agree with what that quote is saying. Americans living abroad can still vote, and therefore are still represented. It's true that Americans living abroad don't all have the same representatives, since they're represented by the elected officials from where they're registered to vote in the US, but that's a far different thing from saying that they have no representation at all.

You seem to be agreeing with the quote. Note it doesn't say no one represents them. It says no single member. Influence spread across all members isn't really going to get much work done for them as if they had their own specific to their problems who considered it their job to represent them and talk about them, etc..

Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#24
post #10
post #7

"Unfortunately, no single member of Congress represents these American constituents who together would rank, if a state, 12th in population size after New Jersey and before Virginia. By virtue of living abroad, they are second-class citizens, paying onerous tax burdens without representation." Compare this to Switzerland that considers its citizens living abroad part of the "fifth Switzerland" (there are 4 official l…

I don't agree with what that quote is saying. Americans living abroad can still vote, and therefore are still represented. It's true that Americans living abroad don't all have the same representatives, since they're represented by the elected officials from where they're registered to vote in the US, but that's a far different thing from saying that they have no representation at all.

In France we have deputies(Kind of like congressmen in the U.S.) for expats. Deputies cover region of the world(Deputies for french citizens abroad). http://www.ufe.org/fr/vos-interets/representation-parlementa...

They 'make sure' our interests as expat are being covered.

Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#25
I said this before, but I will say it again - as a child, I dreamed of emigrating to the US and getting a US citizenship. Nowadays, I would reject one if anybody offered, and if I had one I would denounce it. Like the article states - being American abroad is now seen as liability, and I am not surprised Americans living abroad give up their citizenship just to stop dealing with this nonsense.

Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#26

It really doesn't make sense how the US is the only country which insists on taxing their citizens, no matter where they live. It makes American labor less competitive and promotes the insularity of American culture. I'm living abroad and you can definitely see the impact of the US tax system in the background of expats: Americans are severely underrepresented. The same salary, when offered to a British expat and an…

I'm also an American expat (Iceland), and for a lot of people, there will be no difference except for inconvenience. If you make less than about $100,000 per year, you exclude that income from US taxes completely. You still have to file a 1040, but you just declare the income on one line and negate it five lines later. You send the IRS the completed form showing you owe $0 and you're done.

And if you make more than $100,000 but live in a country that isn't a tax-haven, you exclude that income too because you're only taxed on the difference between the taxes you would owe the US government and the taxes you paid in your home country. In Europe at least, you're almost always taxed at a higher rate than the US would have taxed you, so again, you don't owe anything. You're only looking at that 30% burden if you live in a country with no taxes and you make millions of dollars (because again, the first $100k is excluded).

I agree it's a bit crazy that the US taxes worldwide income, but the practical consequences seem pretty minimal. My bank has no problem with me as a customer, or at least if they do, they haven't said anything to me about it.

Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#27
post #18

It really doesn't make sense how the US is the only country which insists on taxing their citizens, no matter where they live. It makes American labor less competitive and promotes the insularity of American culture. I'm living abroad and you can definitely see the impact of the US tax system in the background of expats: Americans are severely underrepresented. The same salary, when offered to a British expat and an…

IIRC some countries have treaties with the U.S. and tax American citizens less.

The specifics of the tax treaties depend on the country, but in general it works out to avoid double taxation. If you live in a part of the world where income taxes are generally at higher rates than the US, such as most first-world countries, you get a dollar-for-dollar tax credit against your US taxes for foreign taxes paid, which generally extinguishes your US liability. (There exist other options, notably the Foreign Earned Income Exemption, for folks earning below ~$100k a year.)

The folks with a trickier situation are the ones who either a) are getting subpar tax advice (really, really easy, since few accountants are qualified to talk about multinational taxation and those that are generally charge a bundle) or b) folks who live/work in a low-taxes-low-services nation but end up getting a mid-taxes-no-services bill tacked on due to their US citizenship.

Representative examples of the two regimes: I have lived and worked in Japan for the last ten years. Japanese tax rates are generally on par with or slightly above US tax rates. (There exist important qualifiers on this for practical tax planning for small businesses here.) This results in me every year shipping my accountant a lot of numbers after which he comes up with a calculation which says something like: "Taxes owed to US: $20k; taxes accrued in Japan: $22k; take Japan/US tax treaty credit; net tax owed to US $0."

On the other hand, consider a high-salary employee of a bank's Hong Kong office. The HK top tax rate is 15%. The US top tax rate is 39.6%. Uncle Sam will happily advise you that you have to pay the 24.6% difference (on your last marginal dollar, naturally).

All of the above assumes one is doing one's level best to pay the lowest tax bill consistent with the clear intent and established practice of the enforcement divisions of the laws of the United States. This, regretfully, does not describe all taxpayers.

Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#28

It really doesn't make sense how the US is the only country which insists on taxing their citizens, no matter where they live. It makes American labor less competitive and promotes the insularity of American culture. I'm living abroad and you can definitely see the impact of the US tax system in the background of expats: Americans are severely underrepresented. The same salary, when offered to a British expat and an…

Not the only country. Norway will also tax citizens in certain circumstances. I believe though Norwegians can state they have left the country permanently (though can still return) and lose rights to social benefits such as unemployment payments until you have been working in the country again.

Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#29
Funny thing is that this affects not only American citizens, but also anyone who studied, lived or worked in the US, regardless of citizenship, since unless you prove otherwise, that could be taken as evidence that you are a "US person".
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