Off the Grid, but Still Online • Hacker News Board

Re: Off the Grid, but Still Online

#111

Post by shostack » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 12:39 AM UTC

lfowles wrote: post #87

shostack wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not a developer, I do spend more or less my entire day staring at one or more screens. My home has a yard that needs to be completely re-landscaped, and the manual labor for that has been such a rewarding and peaceful activity for me which speaks a lot to your point. That said, I realized while buying supplies to build a wooden raised bed this past weekend that basic things like "screwing some boards together t…

> The only thing I can think of is that in this day and age of everything being simplified to a few mouse clicks or screen taps, everything else becomes a monumental chore by comparison. Or that now you know what the tradeoffs are and that there is a whole set of things you don't know you don't know! My teen self would have rather built the raised garden bed than used it, so he wouldn't have planned for long term eff…

You hit on another really important point actually. Part of why it has taken me so long to get off my butt to buy the parts has been agonizing over materials, all the different ways I can assemble it, etc. I not only have newfound respect for landscapers and carpenters, but realized that to some degree, you just need to pick an approach with the understanding you might mess things up and it isn't the end of the world. But it is very easy to fall into the "paralysis by analysis" trap.

For me it was first the debate about cedar vs. redwood vs. pine. Pine doesn't last well and the cedar options at Home Depot were pitiful so that made the choice for redwood easy. I worked out that wood screws were probably easier than rebar or railroad ties to install even if it does mean a higher risk of the thing coming apart. I can always reinforce it with metal L-brackets at the corners down the line if I need to. Since I'm going to grow veggies, I needed to make sure there was nothing toxic, so I got raw untreated wood. I may or may not stain the outside with a natural stain, but I'll start by seeing how it looks once I sand it down.

The most frustrating thing in all of this is that I can find plenty of pictures for what I want online, but most sites are crappy fluff content without handy details of parts or considerations for how to build it. Clear SEO spam plays and oh my god so many interstitials and slideshows! Instructables was actually pretty decent, but I couldn't find a style of bed I liked.

I guess I just need to do more of these projects to get more comfortable with the considerations. Like all things, practice makes perfect, and after I build this first prototype I'll decide if I want to do the same style for the others.

Next up...figuring out my soil mix and then sorting out how to convert the old irrigation system the previous owner had at the house to a drip system on a few of the heads and get that running into the beds.

Re: Off the Grid, but Still Online

#112

Post by dmm » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 1:06 AM UTC

rboyd wrote: post #50

codingdave wrote: post #12

There are also middle grounds you can take. I, and other people in my area, live on homesteads, doing our organic / permaculture farming thing, growing our own food, expanding our solar arrays... while also having a good internet connection and a grid-tie so we can do our coding day jobs for part of the day, pay our bills, then shut down and spend the rest of our time in a more disconnected state. I wish I could disc…

My fiance and I left Chicago (and $1700/mo) in July for this kind of middle ground. I cross-referenced national fiber optic rollout with low population/rural areas and we found a few acres with 1gbps FTTH in the Lake of the Ozarks area. Our place came with an existing 2 bedroom home with existing private well and electric, all-in we bought for under 2 years worth of Chicago rent. Our home is/was a bit of a fixer-uppe…

Lake of the Ozarks? That's so cool! I'm in California MO a little north of there. We should be friends!

You said you had a few acres. Are you planning a garden for the spring?

Re: Off the Grid, but Still Online

#113

Post by jqm » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 1:14 AM UTC

I live on a few acres about 15 miles outside a small town in rural New Mexico. The closest big cities are 3 hours away and those cities aren't actually very big. We (SO and I) grow a nice garden and have a well, but go into town for work. Initially I had intended to work from home but it became entirely too isolated. When I caught myself going outside to have a conversation with the chickens I realized it was time for a change, and I wound up leasing an office.

There is much positive about living simply and remotely.

Now the negative: You might want to go to a decent restaurant at some point. Also, intelligent conversation is a rarity. The folks you meet and deal with in rural settings often have stunted world views and not much ambition. That, in my experience, is the biggest problem with going (in this case only partially) "off-grid" in a remote area.

Re: Off the Grid, but Still Online

#114

Post by grecy » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 1:20 AM UTC

turar wrote: post #43

grecy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Australian, and have gone through ~7 years of paperwork to become an Canadian Permanent Resident. I have another ~5 years for citizenship, which I'm working towards because Canada really is that awesome :) I'm sure there are places equally as stunning in the Northern European countries.

Doesn't Australia have its own vast remote wilderness? Or is freezing cold preferable to scorching hot?

It does, though I've fallen in love with the mountains.

Re: Off the Grid, but Still Online

#115

Post by grecy » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 1:22 AM UTC

MrMcDowall wrote: post #106

grecy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Australian, and have gone through ~7 years of paperwork to become an Canadian Permanent Resident. I have another ~5 years for citizenship, which I'm working towards because Canada really is that awesome :) I'm sure there are places equally as stunning in the Northern European countries.

High five! I've just done the same and just passed the citizenship test. Canada is awesome.

Arg. I knew the rules were changing, and I thought they were changing on the 1st of July, so I got my application in a week before that... it turns out they changed the day before my application was "accepted", so it was denied, and I must live in Canada for another 2 full years before I even qualify to apply.

Normally that wouldn't be so bad, but I've just set off on two years around Africa, which means it's going to be a long, long time before I have 5 continuous years in Canada. Oh well, at least I can remain a permanent resident essentially forever.

Re: Off the Grid, but Still Online

#116

Post by grecy » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 1:24 AM UTC

bch wrote: post #56

grecy wrote: post #28

If anyone is interested in this way of life, I suggest moving North. It's extremely beautiful and there are way less people. I moved to the Yukon 4 years ago, and a massive number of people live in this way. I.e. work less, own less, have way more time and live how you want. Hunt, fish, grow your own food, chop your own wood, and you can live a great life only working 20-50% time. Also there are hardly any rules up h…

Where in Yukon are you living ? I presume not in Whitehorse.

I have actually been living and working in Whitehorse for the last 4 years, as I wanted to save enough money to do something big again (going for 2+ years around Africa in my Jeep).

While Whitehorse is a city, I have world-class mountain biking from my backyard, and 20 minutes from town in any direction I have no cell reception and rarely see other people on the weekends. 3 hours from town we can be hundreds of kilometers from the nearest person.

Re: Off the Grid, but Still Online

#117

Post by Retric » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 1:26 AM UTC

Zach_the_Lizard wrote: post #63

Retric wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FedEx works because people near you also need packages. The more packages they ship the more efficient they become. Also, the US population density is ~100 people per square mile so chances are good someone within 1 mile of you also needs a package today. Sure, it's cheaper for them to drop off 10 packages at the same apartment complex, but even fairly remote areas can be surprisingly profitable.

>Fedex works because people near you also need packages. That's exactly my point. The more people who need packages around you, the less it costs to deliver a package specifically to you. Going off the grid in remote corners sounds great, but part of the reason we moved to cities is because sharing infrastructure costs makes things more efficient. >Also, the US population density is ~100 people per square mile so cha…

There are less than 4 million miles of road in the US. At 1$ per mile you can send a truck down every one 6 days a week for 1.3 billion a year. (Note, there would be some backtracking but also some roads are avoided.) FedEx's revenue is 45 billion a year so the last mile is not a problem as long as the volume is there.

On top of that if you live in the middle of nowhere they simply don't deliver to you. So, if more people moved to the desert for whatever reason there costs stay more or less the same.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_in_the_United...

Re: Off the Grid, but Still Online

#118

Post by ars » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 1:30 AM UTC

JupiterMoon wrote: post #83

ars wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or is freezing cold preferable to scorching hot? I think so. It seems much easier to build things to handle the cold vs handle the heat. You really just need fuel and insulation (for you and the house), and you can be quite comfortable. Scorching heat though - there's really not a whole lot you can do except find shade and not move.

There are solar powered solutions for air conditioning.

But then you are stuck in a house. In cold climates people hunt, fish, etc even when it's cold (although not during storms).

Re: Off the Grid, but Still Online

#119

Post by swang » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 1:30 AM UTC

rboyd wrote: post #50

codingdave wrote: post #12

There are also middle grounds you can take. I, and other people in my area, live on homesteads, doing our organic / permaculture farming thing, growing our own food, expanding our solar arrays... while also having a good internet connection and a grid-tie so we can do our coding day jobs for part of the day, pay our bills, then shut down and spend the rest of our time in a more disconnected state. I wish I could disc…

My fiance and I left Chicago (and $1700/mo) in July for this kind of middle ground. I cross-referenced national fiber optic rollout with low population/rural areas and we found a few acres with 1gbps FTTH in the Lake of the Ozarks area. Our place came with an existing 2 bedroom home with existing private well and electric, all-in we bought for under 2 years worth of Chicago rent. Our home is/was a bit of a fixer-uppe…

Do you still have the data in regards to fiber rollout / low population? Is it just Chicago? Interested in this but somewhere more on the west coast.

Re: Off the Grid, but Still Online

#120

Post by talsraviv » Tue, Oct 13, 2015, 1:30 AM UTC

The comments here are really thought provoking. I feel like I'm missing something - is there some kind of unmentioned catch, like don't get sick, or you have to have really good workers/health/disability insurance - to make this work safely long term?

I love the contrarian thinking but want to make sure I'm accounting for legitimate cases my young mind might not conceive of. Or am I overthinking it?