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Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

bbc.com

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Re: Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

#41

Post by sylvinus »

ma2rten wrote: post #37
yc1010 wrote: post #3

"The estimated cost of the police presence is more than £12m." So who should get fired for such a waste of police resources?

Where do these prices come from anyway? According to Google the average salary of a police man in England is £30,000 and they work about 40 hours per week. So it should cost £126,000 station one person for 24/7. Now I understand that real costs will be higher for various reasons, but 100x?

It's pretty easy to find reasonable multiples on your assumptions. It's London and they might not be average policemen: salary x2 ; Overtime/nighttime: x2, Administrative overhead (they must spend time reporting, at the precinct, ...): x2 ; Multiple policemen (1 would not be enough to act): x3-x5 ; Management of those officers & briefings: x2-x3 ; That's already ~x100 and it's human costs only.

Re: Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

#42

Post by nolok »

sarciszewski wrote: post #38
nolok wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please, you absolutely understood what he really meant and are arguing over the wrong usage of words rather than the point he was making. I believe such argument have a place and time, but at least dissociate them from the original point ...

> Oh please, you absolutely understood what he really meant and are arguing over the wrong usage of words rather than the point he was making. First, I'm not entirely sure this person is a he . In the absence of an indicator of which gender a person is, I typically don't assume. "Oh please, you absolutely understood" is not a justifiable statement here. What knowledge do you possess of what I do or do not understand?…

The masculine form is traditionally used as the unmarked form when the gender is not known, it is not assuming any gender. And again, arguing over that while it is not even anywhere near the point we're discussing makes no sense. Although we lately have seen the emergence of gender neutral pronoun, it is rather unpleasing to use "he/she" is an informal discussion forum when the unmarked form meaning is well understood and has been for centuries.

As for the rest, what was meant higher up was that from the justice point of view at this stage of a case, whether the rape happened or not is not known nor required to make the decision, a complaint has been made and it is the job of the state offices (both police and justice) to ensure the case can go through unimpeded.

As such, the question asked clearly meant "if you make an accusation of rape against you, how much should the state be willing to pay to see the case go through if the person you accuse makes it difficult / what is the maximal amount after which they should stop".

Now, maybe english is not your first language, because this was sincerely very clear and evident that this is what was meant in the message.

Whether the person was really raped or whether that person makes it up does not change that amount, since the state does not know at that point and the amount is spent in order to see the case go through to figure it out.

Re: Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

#43

Post by samstave »

sylvinus wrote: post #41
ma2rten wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do these prices come from anyway? According to Google the average salary of a police man in England is £30,000 and they work about 40 hours per week. So it should cost £126,000 station one person for 24/7. Now I understand that real costs will be higher for various reasons, but 100x?

It's pretty easy to find reasonable multiples on your assumptions. It's London and they might not be average policemen: salary x2 ; Overtime/nighttime: x2, Administrative overhead (they must spend time reporting, at the precinct, ...): x2 ; Multiple policemen (1 would not be enough to act): x3-x5 ; Management of those officers & briefings: x2-x3 ; That's already ~x100 and it's human costs only.

I don't believe most of these numbers. I'll be back later with a spreadsheet

Why am I being downvoted? Seriously, this math calculates to me differently in my head - so I am going to put a spreadsheet together to see if these costs are real.

Ill assume the avg salary stated above, plus the hours and schedules.

I can't believe that some beat officer is going to inflate costs 2x for doing reporting. I HIGHLY doubt there is that much paperwork for a simple shift change.

Further, the "cost" could be highly falsely inflated to justify the stopping of guarding Assange as they may see it a waste - and want to inflate how much waste there is so as to get easy agreement that "its not worth it"

Re: Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

#44

Post by sarciszewski »

nolok wrote: post #42
sarciszewski wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh please, you absolutely understood what he really meant and are arguing over the wrong usage of words rather than the point he was making. First, I'm not entirely sure this person is a he . In the absence of an indicator of which gender a person is, I typically don't assume. "Oh please, you absolutely understood" is not a justifiable statement here. What knowledge do you possess of what I do or do not understand?…

The masculine form is traditionally used as the unmarked form when the gender is not known, it is not assuming any gender. And again, arguing over that while it is not even anywhere near the point we're discussing makes no sense. Although we lately have seen the emergence of gender neutral pronoun, it is rather unpleasing to use "he/she" is an informal discussion forum when the unmarked form meaning is well understoo…

> Although we lately have seen the emergence of gender neutral pronoun, it is rather unpleasing to use "he/she" is an informal discussion forum when the unmarked form meaning is well understood and has been for centuries.

Singular "they" works wonders.

> Now, maybe english is not your first language

Only non-programming language, actually.

> because this was sincerely very clear and evident that this is what was meant in the message.

I disagree, and that was the entirety of my point here.

Re: Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

#45

Post by icebraining »

realusername wrote: post #34
polack wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So whats the limit on how much society should spend to seek justice if someone raped you?

I think the charges were dropped by the girls a long time ago, it's just justice paperwork now if I remember.

I don't know about Sweden, but at least here in Portugal rape is what is called a "public crime", that is, there is no need for charges to be pressed for it to be prosecuted.

Re: Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

#46

Post by tptacek »

appleflaxen wrote: post #21
polack wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So whats the limit on how much society should spend to seek justice if someone raped you?

I'm not sure if you are being facetious, but that's actually exactly the right question to ask. Not only would it be great to explicitly know the exact number, but that number should be the same no matter who the victim (or perpetrator) is.

Wait, doesn't that logic essentially inoculate hedge fund managers and private equity barons from rape prosecutions? That can't possibly be right.

Re: Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

#47

Post by TrevorJ »

sylvinus wrote: post #41
ma2rten wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do these prices come from anyway? According to Google the average salary of a police man in England is £30,000 and they work about 40 hours per week. So it should cost £126,000 station one person for 24/7. Now I understand that real costs will be higher for various reasons, but 100x?

It's pretty easy to find reasonable multiples on your assumptions. It's London and they might not be average policemen: salary x2 ; Overtime/nighttime: x2, Administrative overhead (they must spend time reporting, at the precinct, ...): x2 ; Multiple policemen (1 would not be enough to act): x3-x5 ; Management of those officers & briefings: x2-x3 ; That's already ~x100 and it's human costs only.

I don't think that adds up to x100 or even close but I see where you are coming from.

Re: Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

#48

Post by FireBeyond »

ma2rten wrote: post #37
yc1010 wrote: post #3

"The estimated cost of the police presence is more than £12m." So who should get fired for such a waste of police resources?

Where do these prices come from anyway? According to Google the average salary of a police man in England is £30,000 and they work about 40 hours per week. So it should cost £126,000 station one person for 24/7. Now I understand that real costs will be higher for various reasons, but 100x?

Look at the attached picture. I count EIGHT officers in that picture alone. Add to that the multipliers previously posted and you can rapidly approach that kind of cost.

I'm not sure why 8 officers would be required to keep an eye on one door for one person, but that's a tangential question...

Re: Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

#49

Post by toyg »

FireBeyond wrote: post #48
ma2rten wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do these prices come from anyway? According to Google the average salary of a police man in England is £30,000 and they work about 40 hours per week. So it should cost £126,000 station one person for 24/7. Now I understand that real costs will be higher for various reasons, but 100x?

Look at the attached picture. I count EIGHT officers in that picture alone. Add to that the multipliers previously posted and you can rapidly approach that kind of cost. I'm not sure why 8 officers would be required to keep an eye on one door for one person, but that's a tangential question...

I understand there is at least another door, plus of course you have to keep an eye on roofs and so on.

Re: Police stop guarding embassy refuge of Julian Assange

#50

Post by ViViDboarder »

joosters wrote: post #35
maxpupmax wrote: post #14

On mobile this redirects me to a bunch of spam somehow... Careful if you click through.

BBC redirecting to spam? Seems a little unlikely? Perhaps something else on your phone doing nasty stuff, maybe?

Happening to me in the in-app browser for Yarn.
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