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Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

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Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#71

Post by minority-one »

merijnv wrote: post #48
pmlnr wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really; the only way to force companies is by spending your money somewhere else. They just simply won't care while you're still making the same money for them.

> the only way to force companies is by spending your money somewhere else Or, you know, enforcing new legislation that forces the company to do what you want...

I'm pretty sure pmlnr meant "the only way to peacefully/morally force companies is by spending your money somewhere else".

We all know violence and threat (what you suggest) works. Some of us are trying to decrease the amount of what you suggest in the world.

New legislation is a direct threat to companies, backed by the power of the government to fine and arrest those who disobey. Why go to such lengths when it's much easier just to stop going to Facebook? Only a perverse sadist would prefer legislation over ostracism.

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#72

Post by nommm-nommm »

pc86 wrote: post #69
nommm-nommm wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question - What's a fake name? Plenty of people go by names that aren't the same as on their official government ID, even childhood nicknames. Your name is whatever people call you. There's no reason why future employers need to know your "legal" name on a job interview. When you get a job you need to fill out some HR forms and that's basically extent of it. Your coworkers/boss/clients/customers aren't obliga…

And nobody is having their Facebook account flagged for using "Peggy" instead of "Margaret," they're getting flagged for using "John TheSexMan Doe" instead of the "John Doe" or "Samantha Applebee" instead of "Mark Applebee." So it's a false comparison.

Hardly.

People are getting their facebook flagged for pen names, stage names, derby names, drag names, and other professional names. As well as names that are too common or not common enough, nicknames, and names that contain nouns, adjectives, or adverbs without regards to what shows up on their birth certificate. Not to mention Native American names or other "ethnic" or non-Anglo Saxon names or anything that looks "unusual" (such as, say, Picabo Street or Dick Trickle)

Look, if you have established yourself professionally as The Edge being forced to use facebook as David Howell Evans obviously isn't desirable to you especially if you want to use facebook to promote your works or other professional activities.

And who in the fuck cares if someone is using a feminine sounding name that appears to be masculine. Nobody (and I mean nobody) should be the gender police, seriously. I have a female friend who is named "Robert" anyways.

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#73

Post by detaro »

zo1 wrote: post #38
Symbiote wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook profiles use names that look reasonable, but they aren't necessarily real names. I have at least three friends who don't use their official names in normal life, and have Facebook profiles under slightly modified versions of their names [1] to make them look "normal". (Contriving an example, change "Tall David" to "Taal David" and everyone that knows Tall David can work it out.) [1] name = what they call the…

This is a very good point. Perhaps their drive for a "real names" policy is not for the actual real name, but rather to not have an obviously fake name. E.g. in your scenario an obviously fake name would be "Taal TheSexMan David". That's the sort of stuff that killed-off MySpace, if you ask me.

If that's their motivation (which IMHO would be way more acceptable), then they aren't doing a very good job implementing it.

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#74

Post by reitanqild »

pjc50 wrote: post #53
mrweasel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking something along those lines. I think the strenght of Facebooks is that people use their real name. I wasn't even thinking about searchability, but that's potentially going right out the window. 3rd. parties that are using Facebook for logins are frequently using/allowing Facebook precisely because you're relative sure that it's "a real person". I know that's one reason why we're using it. I might be wr…

> certainly seems like people are less likely to engage in trolling or extremely bad behaviour if things are linked to Facebook People do jihadi recruiting on Facebook, despite obviously being under surveillance. I think we'd need figures to back up this idea that "real name" policies reduce abuse, rather than content policies, codes of conduct and IP bans.

I try to point out that real names policies only affect

1.) People who aren't using a fake but real-sounding name 2.) People who say something that someone else doesn't like (this can be everyone from a future employer who found something not very PC to jihadis who want to kill you) 3.) People who are smart enough to understand the above (I see grown up people shouting about how certain countries should be nuked, yes. signed Full Name, Teacher at such and such childrens school)

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#75

Post by mahouse »

ino wrote: post #14
mahouse wrote: post #10

That's stupid. If you use a credible pseudonym, they will never ask you for your ID. If they ask you for your ID, send a fake one. It has worked for me three times. They were laughably bad and they accepted them.

Just the fact that facebook asks an official ID is maddening. They aren't a governmental agency. In Portugal the official ID card has your SS number, fiscal number, and health number. I don't want facebook to know any of those, seriously.

And? You are not forced to use Facebook.

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#77

Post by retbull »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #54
zo1 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That can all be dealt with by making your profile private, and not public. Additionally, you simply block the bad/dangerous/stalking party (assuming you are aware of them). I see countless individuals making their Facebook profiles entirely public, and it's quite frankly scary. At that point they have no control over what the internet sees of them. You can't even change it after the fact, as it's probably been indexe…

Abusers make new accounts, and they search you from public computers. Abusers are human, they can think around incomplete protections. Honestly I'm personally of the opinion that the best way to deal with abusive people is to shoot them, several times, and possibly stake and burn the corpse, but the law gets grumpy. So second best is taking a new name and making a new life, and I don't agree that people ought to have…

That view is incredibly short sighted. People get better at being good people and killing them instantly destroys and chance that they can become better people. Killing them also doesn't allow for mistakes or for learning. Also what about the people dependent on the person who is abusing for survival. The abused should never be exposed to abuse but if their abuser provides for them and is killed then they have to go through another hellish situation by being homeless. I don't know what the solution is and what we have in place is barely better than killing them but it does sometimes allow for the growth of individuals.

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#78

Post by trajing »

Aqueous wrote: post #62

The whole reason Facebook has any enforceable standards as a community is because of that policy. The community standards uphold themselves because there are be real-life social consequences for saying something hateful / sexually harassing somebody / posting pornography - the list goes on. Having to use your real name on Facebook is what keeps you accountable. If you want to see Facebook turn into a sewer, get rid o…

No, no. Not having your given or legal name associated with your online presence does not automatically make you a troll, nor does having them associated make people less likely to watch what they say.

For example, me. I've been very careful about what I say even though my real name and my alias are not associated. I care about what people think about trajing, even if they can't trace it back to me in real life.

As for the second part, I've read facebook comments in political articles. I will never make that mistake again.

I don't use facebook, but I understand where these people are coming from and support them.

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#79

Post by jevgeni »

pmlnr wrote: post #76
jevgeni wrote: post #55

Why bother with all of this? Why not just stop using Facebook?

I asked the same question; I got downvoted.

I've got some negative votes as well. It could be that people here are REALLY into Facebook. Or there might be a slight chance that some of the users here work for FB and are slightly partial...

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#80

Post by aianus »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #72
pc86 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And nobody is having their Facebook account flagged for using "Peggy" instead of "Margaret," they're getting flagged for using "John TheSexMan Doe" instead of the "John Doe" or "Samantha Applebee" instead of "Mark Applebee." So it's a false comparison.

Hardly. People are getting their facebook flagged for pen names, stage names, derby names, drag names, and other professional names. As well as names that are too common or not common enough, nicknames, and names that contain nouns, adjectives, or adverbs without regards to what shows up on their birth certificate. Not to mention Native American names or other "ethnic" or non-Anglo Saxon names or anything that looks…

If you want to market your derby personality or company or whatever, create a Facebook page. That's what they're for.
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