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Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

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Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#51

Post by avolcano »

alimbada wrote: post #9
avolcano wrote: post #6

Good, I'm glad this is getting traction. Seems like every week I read about another trans person or someone who uses a psuedonym in day-to-day life getting "reported" by some asshole and getting locked out of their Facebook, and Facebook seems uninterested in fixing the issue. Honestly, it's heartbreaking, as someone who uses many Facebook open source projects, to talk to engineers at Facebook and find out how many d…

> It's certainly kept me from responding to FB recruitment emails. Maybe respond with your concerns?

I'm somewhat optimistic that Facebook will fix this someday, and I didn't want to end on a recruitment blacklist or something in that case. Still, you're right, next time I get one I'll make it clear that this is the biggest reason I'm uninterested, and that if they fix it they should feel free to contact me again :)

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#52

Post by DanBC »

pmlnr wrote: post #46
DanBC wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what indirect discrimination is, right? > I can't show up to a job interview, use a fake name, and claim I'm being discriminated against... You could if you're in the process of transitioning. (UK; the US needs to catch up). And it's not a fake name. It's their name. You seem to think that people have this single thing which is their name - that might be true in the US (I dunno) but it's not true in many oth…

> And it's not a fake name. It's their name. You seem to think that people have this single thing which is their name - that might be true in the US (I dunno) but it's not true in many other places. Not according to the current laws. You may want to change the laws as well. ( No, I'm not cynical. )

What laws? In the UK I can us any name I like so long as I don't have the intent to deceive. WIkipedia says that's the case for the US

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_name#United_States

> Most states in the United States follow the common law which permits name changing for non-fraudulent purposes. This is actually the most common method, since most women who marry do not petition a court under the statutorily prescribed method, but simply use a new name (typically the husband's, a custom which started under the theory of coverture where a woman lost her identity and most rights when she married).[2] Most state courts have held that a legally assumed name (i.e., for a non-fraudulent purpose) is a legal name and usable as their true name, though assumed names are often not considered the person's technically true name.[3]

In the US the different rules for getting a name changed on official documents sometimes leaves people with official documents in different names, so even if you restrict yourself to documents issued by US government authorities a person can have two names.

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#53

Post by pjc50 »

mrweasel wrote: post #22
PostOnce wrote: post #3

Facebook was made large by the fact that you can find people you used to know, or haven't spoken to in a while, or aren't that close to. You can find anyone, it's easy. Removing the real names policy does away with that, and I would say seriously threaten's facebook's business/growth/future. If you don't know your old girlfriend or your cousin or your highschool bandmate's username, how are you going to get in touch…

I was thinking something along those lines. I think the strenght of Facebooks is that people use their real name. I wasn't even thinking about searchability, but that's potentially going right out the window. 3rd. parties that are using Facebook for logins are frequently using/allowing Facebook precisely because you're relative sure that it's "a real person". I know that's one reason why we're using it. I might be wr…

  > certainly seems like people are less likely to engage in trolling or extremely bad behaviour if things are linked to Facebook
People do jihadi recruiting on Facebook, despite obviously being under surveillance. I think we'd need figures to back up this idea that "real name" policies reduce abuse, rather than content policies, codes of conduct and IP bans.

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#54

Post by JulianMorrison »

zo1 wrote: post #11
JulianMorrison wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, the most common use of a "chosen name" policy would be to let you find someone by the name they actually use - stage name, pen name, drag name, or unofficially changed name. Second, the less common but equally important use of a chosen name policy would be to make it hard to find someone who doesn't want to be found eg: by an abusive, dangerous ex.

That can all be dealt with by making your profile private, and not public. Additionally, you simply block the bad/dangerous/stalking party (assuming you are aware of them). I see countless individuals making their Facebook profiles entirely public, and it's quite frankly scary. At that point they have no control over what the internet sees of them. You can't even change it after the fact, as it's probably been indexe…

Abusers make new accounts, and they search you from public computers. Abusers are human, they can think around incomplete protections. Honestly I'm personally of the opinion that the best way to deal with abusive people is to shoot them, several times, and possibly stake and burn the corpse, but the law gets grumpy. So second best is taking a new name and making a new life, and I don't agree that people ought to have vanish themselves from the internet just to preserve Facebook's fetish for government-issued names.

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#56

Post by [deleted] »

pmlnr wrote: post #44
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a company, a product, which no one is forced to use. In practice, not using Facebook means cutting off social contact with some people.

True. I've asked myself the question that if I do want to leave Facebook, but my 'friends' doesn't care and not willing to do any other form of communication, are they really my friends?

[deleted]

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#57

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

pjc50 wrote: post #53
mrweasel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking something along those lines. I think the strenght of Facebooks is that people use their real name. I wasn't even thinking about searchability, but that's potentially going right out the window. 3rd. parties that are using Facebook for logins are frequently using/allowing Facebook precisely because you're relative sure that it's "a real person". I know that's one reason why we're using it. I might be wr…

> certainly seems like people are less likely to engage in trolling or extremely bad behaviour if things are linked to Facebook People do jihadi recruiting on Facebook, despite obviously being under surveillance. I think we'd need figures to back up this idea that "real name" policies reduce abuse, rather than content policies, codes of conduct and IP bans.

YouTube tried this and it didn't fix anything about how awful YouTube comments were.

Re: Global coalition tells Facebook to kill its Real Names policy

#59

Post by bad_user »

alimbada wrote: post #20
bad_user wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think they haven't heard these concerns?

If they hear them from someone they're actively attempting to recruit, I expect it would carry more weight. At the very least it will make FBs HR department aware of the issue. As the parent commenter said, there are a lot of people at FB who aren't even aware of these issues.

It's more likely that it will make the candidate look like an asshole.
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